I can say no more.

[hackthis_archive]

Four cups of tea, 200 sit-ups and 10 hours of VH1 Soul sound tracking later -- not to mention the day and a half I took to read it -- I have finished OoTP. I suspect I would have finished it yesterday if I‘d stopped jumping up and down and shrieking every 20 pages.


1. AIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

2. Gayer than George Michael performing at Pride in Brighton, yo. Exhibit A: the part where Dudley asks if Cedric is Harry’s boyfriend. Exhibit B: The sorting hat’s song about Slytherin and Gryffindor. (I know that was no surprise to you lot). Exhibit C: Sirius and Remus cohabitation as a given. Exhibit D: At the Three Broomsticks where Rita Skeeter just about pisses herself at the idea that Harry's done anything with a girl. Think she overheard something between he and Draco when she was spying? That tears it for me.

3. Neville. Biggest woobie, yo. I have MAD Neville love.

4. Harry. Who knew that ethrosdemon‘s True Heir series was so on target (I mean apart from her)? Talk about having rage issues. Plus, with all that mention of him being a nutter, man, was he suffering from a permanent case of PMT or what?

5. When are Ron and Hermione going to get their shit together? I mean apart from the whole being trapped together for a month at Grimmuld Place. (This is acceptable het)

6. Harry/Cho = Clark/Lana, complete with frilly girly hangouts, boys who get tongue-tied and crying jags. It’s so not working for me. Who goes on a date with one person to talk about somebody else?! Lana. And also, Cho - did I mention she annoyed the piss out of me? (This is non-acceptable het)

7. Complaint #1: Did Draco appear in more than five pages? Meh. All the more room to slash.

8. AIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

9. Percy. Well, are we really surprised there? I mean, really. Lord Acton said it best, I'll just paraphrase' Power: the *other* dark lord.'

10. Occlumency is the study of the ability to lie, but personally I just think that’s one of those things: either you’re good at it or you’re not.

11. Also, to paraphrase former Headmaster Phineas Nigellus (who I adore) ‘Slytherins know the difference between bravery and stupidity. There’s nothing wrong with being loyal, but cover your own ass first.‘ Raise your hand if you’re proud to be Slytherin!

*starts singing about Weasley being king.*

12. Complaint #2: Why does JKR never allow Harry to tell Dumbledore what the fuck is going on when the shit is really going on? Notice how it’s always ‘no, I’m not going to tell anybody how fucked up shit really is because I’m brave.‘

That’s not brave, that’s stupid (please see #11).

How the fuck are you going to fight a war if you keep holding out? That’s always fucking bugged me: how Dumbledore is the wrap-up for the book. How about Harry share some shit when it’s happening, like I dunno the whole corridor vision.

Also, nobody ever seems to finish an important thought in these books. WTF?

13. Fred and George. George and Fred. More woobie love, yo. I am all about the ‘going out with a bang’ school of thought.

14. Complaint #3/Compliment #1: Could Harry be a little bit more egotistical and self-important? No, I think not. Don’t get me wrong, it’s Harry, I’m not totally player hating, but Merlin’s goolies in a vice, what a fucking bratty teenager. Woe is me, I am so misunderstood nobody has ever suffered as I have before. Get your head out your ass and realise that everybody‘s suffering just the same, except teens seem to angst about it more than anybody else (Big love to Sev and Phineas Nigellus for pointedly saying that ‘a lot of people are idiots at the age of 15‘(Also big ups to JKR for getting that teenage self-centredness just right)).

Life is pain, highness, anyone who says differently is selling something

15. In the wizarding world getting an 'E' is a brilliant thing. I so went to the wrong school.

16. For the first 500 pages I honestly thought the superweapon was the Seed of Discord. I mean look at how everybody was behaving all pissy. A weapon doesn’t have to be big to be powerful, and again, like the sorting hat pointed out ‘divided you’ll fall.’ What better way to get what you need?

17. Chapter 28 was among with most enlightening, that was the Snape memory one for the record. Dude, James was a conceited little fucker wasn’t he? Why wasn’t he a Slytherin again? More importantly with that lineage, why wasn’t Sirius?

18. You know, since Ginny's got herself a boyfriend and stopping mooning over Harry she’s become quite likable. She’s very much a Weasley I must say.

19. Judging by Harry’s marks in Potions, I’m wondering how he’s not still taking First Year instruction, you know? Maybe Remedial Potions wasn’t a half bad idea.

20. A tenner says that Umbridge is a registered animagus as a toad.

21. I love McGonagall, she’s got some serious cojones. Word to Minerva.

22. Ron = woobie. Also, what underdog? I'm thinking the Mirror of Erised has got some other properties going on because just wishing never got me anything like that.

23. Did Umbridge’s detention freak anybody else out too? This is a book for kids? Bringing new things to the world of S&M, yo.

24. When the OWL’s began and Harry read the opening question, how many people said ‘Swish and Flick’?

25. I’ve watched a lot of movies, read a lot of books, but that action sequence at the end is probably hands down the best one I have EVER come across.

26. And last but certainly not least:

I come from the old skool: if there is no body then there is no death. Ergo, I'll be seeing Sirius in book seven I expect.


I will be more coherent after I re-read it again.

Comments

[hackthis.livejournal.com]

What indicated that in particular as Snape worst memory, as opposed to just a random humiliating one? Because I must have missed it and I'm curious.

It's what JKR titled the chapter.

[serialkarma.livejournal.com]

12. Complaint #2: Why does JKR never allow Harry to tell Dumbledore what the fuck is going on when the shit is really going on? Notice how it’s always ‘no, I’m not going to tell anybody how fucked up shit really is because I’m brave.'

the only reasonable explanation for this that I've heard is that Harry wasn't brought up with reliable adult authority figures and has thus never internalized the idea that grownups are there to *help.* But it bugs the hell out of me too.

Also, I think the shoe is on both feet here with regards to full disclosure (to, um, totally mangle a cliche). Dumbledore really should have told Harry some of what was going on earlier.

20. A tenner says that Umbridge is a registered animagus as a toad.

Dude, does that mean I can squash her like one? I will be happy to run her over in my car, slowly.

I come from the old skool: if there is no body then there is no death. Ergo, I'll be seeing Sirius in book seven I expect.

Have to disagree with you. I seriously doubt it. At least, from things I've read (and how *did* you manage not to catch *any* of the many interviews she's given in the last, like, year, and not hear that she was killing one of the characters? Impressed, here), I would be very very surprised.

[hackthis.livejournal.com]

bwah. donuts to dollars some two penny hack (not you, for sure ;p) is feverishly scribbling down a naughty little fic in which poor Harry is having naughty dreams about Snape and must either face the object of his affections or run for the hills.

bwah!


you're right, i'm only a penny hack, and the idea of snape/harry makes me tremendously queasy. *winks*

[hackthis.livejournal.com]

I liked how everyone got some actual characterization. Ginny, Snape, even Neville... it's like, "Hey, people doing thigns and talking! Yo."

I know, what's next? Talking horses and flying pigs? *winks*

[hackthis.livejournal.com]

Was anyone else weirded out by the fact that Snape's worst memory was being teased in school? I mean, the man was a Death Eater for Christ's sake and his worst memory is some bullies in school? Jesus, they should let Voldemort roll right in 'cause obviously the man is harmless. *scoffs*

Well, now that I have to actually think about it, I can see this and I think it makes some sense. People are shaped by their younger experiences, right? You always hear about the horrific childhood creating the monster (you need look no further than Mr. Riddle), and perhaps this was that proverbial straw breaking the camel's back.

You could look at the memory in lots of different lights. Perhaps the memory is so traumatizing because of the public humiliation, or the humiliation in front of say Lily, or as my slashy brain screamed, Remus or even James. Imagine the person you were keen on humiliating you that way? Wouldn't that make you just a little bitter and vindinctive? Perhaps it's the worst because James and Snape were once more than friends. Sorry, slashy moments just keep kicking me in the head, so pushing that aside for a moment suppose that was some turning point for Sev. Perhaps that was when he declared the proverbial war on James and all that he stood for, by default that would cause him to join the Dark Lord. There are all sorts of possibilities here, and in a way having Snape's worst memory be of his first killing would be a bit of a cop out. This way the puzzle shifts all over again. IMO, if JKR was looking to conjure a bit of sympathy for Snape it's worked on me.

[hackthis.livejournal.com]

11. Also, to paraphrase former Headmaster Phineas Nigellus (who I adore) ‘Slytherins know the difference between bravery and stupidity. There’s nothing wrong with being loyal, but cover your own ass first.‘ Raise your hand if you’re proud to be Slytherin!

My God, did he really say that? Cause I must have missed it. I want that for my user info. :)

Ah no, the key word there is 'paraphrase.' I was just summarizing what he told Harry at Christmas when Harry wanted to leave Grimmauld Place.

[hackthis.livejournal.com]

I come from the old skool: if there is no body then there is no death. Ergo, I'll be seeing Sirius in book seven I expect.

Have to disagree with you. I seriously doubt it. At least, from things I've read (and how *did* you manage not to catch *any* of the many interviews she's given in the last, like, year, and not hear that she was killing one of the characters? Impressed, here), I would be very very surprised.

Yeah, Seren said I was bang out of luck, but obviously you are all are wrong! *winks* And yes, I worked very hard to stay spoiler-free even when I was knee deep in writing HP. I don't like getting spoiled.

Also, you are right about the full-disclosure, I think the obvousness of it all just bothered me. I'm not terribly enamoured of authority figures meself, but he actually considered telling Dumbledore, and didn't. I am all about instinct. He needs to listen to his.

Re:

[wyoluvr.livejournal.com]

mmm, i would have said that you're a variable penny hack. sometimes 1, sometimes 3, and sometimes you go for the gold and shoot to a nickel.

Re: The views presented are mine and only mine. I'm not blaming my destiny.

[hackthis.livejournal.com]

I think Harry's anger is much more appropriate now, indicative of how close he is to his breaking point. Many people have pointed out how many more references there were to the previous books in OotP. Being as we see through Harry's eyes, Harry must have also been aware of the constant referrals to the hardships of his past experiences. With things just piling on and piling on, with no end in sight, I feel the anger is v. appropriate. Much more than in the early books, when Harry was a child not able to grasp the adversity he would be coming up against in the future.

I agree with what you're saying, however, I think that if there had been a bit more lead-in these outbursts, in book four perhaps, then I might not have been so rankled by the huge amount of them. It seemed to me that JKR went from Harry moaning about Cho (good sign of impending puberty) straight into around the clock angst central (which, IMO, demarcates serious puberty). I'm not saying that Harry doesn't have every reason to feel constrained given the circumstances, however, it seemed as though every five seconds he was having a go at somebody and it got quite tired, very quickly.

Or, all my distaste could simply stem from how much I hated the years between 13 and 17.


Well, yes. I imagine it would. I thought this book in particular did a fantastic job of showing how he _isn't_ the only person suffering and Harry himself realizing this fact. Neville has seen his best, most sympathetic characterization to date in OotP, and IMHO Harry was considerate to him, particularly in regards to his crazy parents. Then Harry has his big crisis because his conscience is forcing him to see Snape in a sympathetic light. He even had a moment to go "oh, that's right. Ginny actually WAS possessed by Voldemort-- she's suffered too.

I agree that this book did an excellent job of showing how others have been affected by Recent Events, my complaint would be why didn't any of this excellent character analysis occur in the previous four books? It's almost like JKR woke up one morning and said, 'ah, right, if there's going to be a war I'll need to actually have some characters who people can be invested in'. Okay, maybe not quite like that, but JKR hasn't really spent a lot of time developing her other characters, and yes, I understand that the series is Harry Potter and..., but a few paragraphs here and there can do wonders, as OoTP shows.
And the more I think about it, despite whatever the title may be, I see these books are being about much more than just Harry. He's a nice vessel, but he could be anybody.

Overall, I adored the book. It was well-written and engaging and I thought it was fucking brilliant, but I'm not going to excuse pissy behaviour just because it's Harry behaving that way. I understand the natural premise that without Harry none of this would exist, but my love of HP doesn't stem from him as a character but rather the world that JKR has created.

[ranalore.livejournal.com]

Hmmm. *bites nails* I'm not an enormous Snape lover, but I do enjoy the character for what he, and it's, worth. The reason I enjoyed the Snape chapter in OoTP so much, I think, is because it presented such a different point of view regarding the Marauders from what has been presented in the previous books as well as in most fan writing.

See, and that I can get behind, despite not being at all impressed with Snape thus far. What disturbs me is the number of fans I generally consider fair-minded who are saying, "Oh, this is the One True Version of the Marauders!" and rejecting the good reports of these people outright. And while neither Sirius nor Remus are perfect, and while I detest Peter for the slimy little git he is, I do think we've been given enough evidence that a) Snape is biased and b) Sirius and Remus have some pretty good traits between them, that it throws me that people are ignoring said evidence in light of this new view.

As far as I can recall, James has always been portrayed as the perfect boyfriend, the perfect son and student, etc., and it was very enlightening to see him, not necessarily through Severus's eyes, but more as someone who quite clearly had some severe short comings. As you pointed out there's bound to be some muddling since these are some one else's memories, but even with the bias aside it was pretty clear that, at fifteen, James was no prize. I like that. I don't do well with people who are presented as holier-than-thou, they make me suspicious.

I absolutely agree. I've wanted to see James and, more importantly to my mind, Lily both rounded out. Like I said, what's making me wary right now is all the declarations of, "Oh, James is really a bastard!" without any qualifiers. Myself, I never doubted that James was no saint (and really, how many teenage boys are? I think it's Vic who shares my belief that humans between the ages of 13 and 18 should really be locked up for the sake of all), but I do think he had his good points, and I do think growing up helped smooth him out.

I think this may just be another case of my frustration that people believe something negative is automatically more true than something positive, either because it's negative or because they like the source of the negative information better. None of which has anything to do with you or your post, so I'll stop taking up space in your LJ now. *g*

Re:

[staraflur.livejournal.com]

Hey, it's all crazy in magic Hogwarts land...

[hackthis.livejournal.com]

What disturbs me is the number of fans I generally consider fair-minded who are saying, "Oh, this is the One True Version of the Marauders!" and rejecting the good reports of these people outright. And while neither Sirius nor Remus are perfect, and while I detest Peter for the slimy little git he is, I do think we've been given enough evidence that a) Snape is biased and b) Sirius and Remus have some pretty good traits between them, that it throws me that people are ignoring said evidence in light of this new view.

*Oggles* Okay, yes, I said James was a concieted little shit, but I meant it in an admiring way. *grin* (Probably yet again why I am a pure Slyherin). Mordred forbid I dismiss someone just because they have an outburst once - okay, I have but this is a book where we've all had a chance to read into prior motives and the like, so you know, we'll ignore that for argument's sake. *winks*

I'd certainly never write off the Marauders because they picked on Snape. Yes, it was cruel and callous, yes, if it had been me everybody'd have been castrated inside a minutes, but because (say it with me) this is a book and we've been given all this development before hand (books 1-4), I think it's pretty safe to say that even with the bad there is still a fair amount of good, n'est pas? Just because this particular memory has generated sympathy for Snape, I don't see why that should detract it from anyone else. Maybe there's only a finite amount of sympathy to go round?

Also, you can ramble in my LJ as much as you want. *grin*

[starlitefaerie.livejournal.com]

the part where Dudley asks if Cedric is Harry’s boyfriend.

My girlfriend had gone down to the sop so I was alone when I read that so I gave a little shriek. I jumped. I jumped and I'd been lying on the couch. Madness, people.

The sorting hat’s song about Slytherin and Gryffindor. (I know that was no surprise to you lot).

*nods, squeals, mumbles incoherently* It was a sign and I was all 'omg' and I totally almost wet myself.

And how cute was Harry&Draco's first words to each other? How fucking cute? C'mon? *collapses*

Harry does have rage issues. I was saying that in my journal. Dude. That boy needs him some wizard Prozac. And Umbridge was so scary, I could barely read the book because of her. I kept wanting to put the book down cause I'm such a sensitive soul.

Re: The views presented are mine and only mine. I'm not blaming my destiny.

[thepouncer.livejournal.com]

I agree that this book did an excellent job of showing how others have been affected by Recent Events, my complaint would be why didn't any of this excellent character analysis occur in the previous four books?

Because Harry had yet to wake up to the fact that others are seperate from him. I distinctly remember my adolescent years, where the concepts of "myself" and "others" finally became clear. Harry is learning to care about other people for themselves, not just in relation to him. It's the beginning of analytic thought about other people, beyond the "I hate him" "I love her" stage. I though JKR did a fantastic job of portraying a 15 year old boy who's been seriously traumatized and whose already fragile support systems are being taken away.

[ranalore.livejournal.com]

*Oggles* Okay, yes, I said James was a concieted little shit, but I meant it in an admiring way. *grin* (Probably yet again why I am a pure Slyherin).

Well, yours did come across as being happy he's so much more well-rounded than in previous books. I have seen two posts on two different lists, however, that were crowing about how the posters just knew James was rotten. Previous posts had led me to believe at least one of the posters was a usually fair-minded individual, so I was surprised by her reaction. Of course, I have seen anti-Snape sentiments I thought equally unreasonable (I may not be a fan, but I do believe the character has his positive attributes), so there you go.

And for myself, I'm hybrid Ravenclaw/Slytherin, heavy on the Ravenclaw side. I am more attached to me cleverness than my slyness. *g*

I'd certainly never write off the Marauders because they picked on Snape. Yes, it was cruel and callous, yes, if it had been me everybody'd have been castrated inside a minutes, but because (say it with me) this is a book and we've been given all this development before hand (books 1-4), I think it's pretty safe to say that even with the bad there is still a fair amount of good, n'est pas? Just because this particular memory has generated sympathy for Snape, I don't see why that should detract it from anyone else. Maybe there's only a finite amount of sympathy to go round?

That's what drew me up about the whole thing. It does seem some are treating sympathy as a finite resource, and if you have it for Snape, you can't have it for the Marauders, and vice versa. I've felt bad for the way Sirius, at least, treated Snape from the moment I learned about it in book three, but that doesn't stop me from sympathizing with Sirius' predicament nor does it stop me from wanting to smack Snape for the way he treats his students. I just hate to see the complexity of any of the characters ignored, especially since complexity of characterization is, I must confess, a rarity in JK's writing thus far. I'm glad to hear that's changed in book five, at least a bit.

Also, you can ramble in my LJ as much as you want. *grin*

*mwah* You are a doll. Really, I just linger on your LJ so much, staring at Jude and Ewan, I feel it behooves me to actually contribute something. *g*

Re: The views presented are mine and only mine. I'm not blaming my destiny.

[hackthis.livejournal.com]

Because Harry had yet to wake up to the fact that others are seperate from him. I distinctly remember my adolescent years, where the concepts of "myself" and "others" finally became clear. Harry is learning to care about other people for themselves, not just in relation to him. It's the beginning of analytic thought about other people, beyond the "I hate him" "I love her" stage. I though JKR did a fantastic job of portraying a 15 year old boy who's been seriously traumatized and whose already fragile support systems are being taken away.

Okay, so we're back to #14 wherein I gave kudos and complaints for making Harry into a realistic teen. My problem was never the realism of that, my issue was that it was so realistic that it was painful. Teens are a rather self-involved species.

[hackthis.livejournal.com]

the part where Dudley asks if Cedric is Harry’s boyfriend.

My girlfriend had gone down to the sop so I was alone when I read that so I gave a little shriek. I jumped. I jumped and I'd been lying on the couch. Madness, people.

I suspect I could have finished the book in half the time if I hadn't kept pacing and turning on the telly or jumping around and acting like an eejit.

And how cute was Harry&Draco's first words to each other? How fucking cute? C'mon? *collapses*

I know. I nearly pissed myself laughing... 'you, unlike me, are a git.' That's an icon. I *need* that icon.

[starlitefaerie.livejournal.com]

We all need that icon, honey.

Harry & Draco 4Eva! *squees*

[hackthis.livejournal.com]

And for myself, I'm hybrid Ravenclaw/Slytherin, heavy on the Ravenclaw side. I am more attached to me cleverness than my slyness. *g*

*winks* The hat considered putting me in Ravenclaw, but I had to pass. It also considered Gryffindor, to which I told it I would unravel it bit by bit if it tried.

I just hate to see the complexity of any of the characters ignored, especially since complexity of characterization is, I must confess, a rarity in JK's writing thus far. I'm glad to hear that's changed in book five, at least a bit.

Yes! In my very roundabout way, that's what I'm attempting to say. There have been complaints that the book was too long, but I see a lot of attempting to make up for what was missing in the others. I appreciate it. And I wish you would hurry up and read them all so you could write some! dork.

Re:

[icarus-22.livejournal.com]

ah of course. <---is dork.

[musesfool.livejournal.com]

Well, considering whipping used to be acceptable punishment, it's entirely possible that it could have been normal at some darker age of Hogwarts.

[musesfool.livejournal.com]

James was no saint (and really, how many teenage boys are? I think it's Vic who shares my belief that humans between the ages of 13 and 18 should really be locked up for the sake of all), but I do think he had his good points, and I do think growing up helped smooth him out.

*snerk*

Yeah, that's me.

Loathe the little teenagers, even when I was one. *g*

I think that while the pensieve is Snape's recollection, and may be biased, there's no way around the fact that even if James and Sirius did only *half* of what Snape recalls in that scene, they were still asshats.

Of course, I also have a huge squick for embarrassment/humiliation. It disturbs me on many levels to see anyone so humiliated.

I also think there's an element of public display - I knew a lot of jocks in both high school and college who were sweet in one-on-one situations who were total jerks when they were in a group or they were showing off for girls. And James and Sirius fit neatly into that paradigm (regardless of whether Sirius was actually an athlete or not. His fondness for Quidditch makes me think he was, though we have no evidence he was on the team, and I think she'd have told us if he had been).

Snape was *safe* to pick on, apparently, and Sirius and James were kings of the school (or of their year, anyway) - rich, talented, goodlooking - I *expected* them (Sirius especially, given his personality) to be obnoxious until they grew out of it.

Knowing their future behavior helps in forming a view of the characters, and James's fury at the 'mudblood' epithet is at least one redeeming thing about the whole scene (though I still think Snape had a thing for Lily, and had to respond that way because 1. he's Slytherin and 2. no boy likes to be defended by a girl, especially the girl he likes).

Then there's Peter's hero worship egging them on (ugh. Peter. I had hoped for more from his characterization than that), and Remus obviously too concerned for his own status in the group to put a stop to something he knew was wrong.

::hugs Remus::

I just wonder how Remus ever spoke to Sirius again after The Prank, because Sirius had obviously *not* outgrown his asshattery by the next year.

[kdorian.livejournal.com]

Err, except of course for the fact that Hermione was horrifed and kept telling him to go tell Dumblebore...

[musesfool.livejournal.com]

Hermione is Muggle-born and wouldn't have had experience with punishments like that. Of course she was horrified.

[ranalore.livejournal.com]

*winks* The hat considered putting me in Ravenclaw, but I had to pass. It also considered Gryffindor, to which I told it I would unravel it bit by bit if it tried.

*snicker* I could hear it pondering Gryffindor when it smacked into my reckless curiosity, but apparently the curiosity factor outweighed the reckless bit. Which is good, as I prefer to leave that "noble and brave and true" stuff to the professionals. I prefer "the enemy is there to be out-thought and out-maneuvered."

Yes! In my very roundabout way, that's what I'm attempting to say. There have been complaints that the book was too long, but I see a lot of attempting to make up for what was missing in the others. I appreciate it. And I wish you would hurry up and read them all so you could write some! dork.

::sticks out tongue:: I have read them all! Except book five. I've reached the conclusion that part of my problem is that I have nothing new to say with regards to the pairing I was trying to write, no new angle from which to present things. And while contextless snippets are feasible for Clark and Lex, they just don't work for Harry and Draco. The past few months, however, have seen me growing more enchanted with Sirius/Remus (whom I will always picture as Ewan, regardless of casting), and I may just have a thing or two to say about them.