I can say no more.

[hackthis_archive]

Four cups of tea, 200 sit-ups and 10 hours of VH1 Soul sound tracking later -- not to mention the day and a half I took to read it -- I have finished OoTP. I suspect I would have finished it yesterday if I‘d stopped jumping up and down and shrieking every 20 pages.


1. AIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

2. Gayer than George Michael performing at Pride in Brighton, yo. Exhibit A: the part where Dudley asks if Cedric is Harry’s boyfriend. Exhibit B: The sorting hat’s song about Slytherin and Gryffindor. (I know that was no surprise to you lot). Exhibit C: Sirius and Remus cohabitation as a given. Exhibit D: At the Three Broomsticks where Rita Skeeter just about pisses herself at the idea that Harry's done anything with a girl. Think she overheard something between he and Draco when she was spying? That tears it for me.

3. Neville. Biggest woobie, yo. I have MAD Neville love.

4. Harry. Who knew that ethrosdemon‘s True Heir series was so on target (I mean apart from her)? Talk about having rage issues. Plus, with all that mention of him being a nutter, man, was he suffering from a permanent case of PMT or what?

5. When are Ron and Hermione going to get their shit together? I mean apart from the whole being trapped together for a month at Grimmuld Place. (This is acceptable het)

6. Harry/Cho = Clark/Lana, complete with frilly girly hangouts, boys who get tongue-tied and crying jags. It’s so not working for me. Who goes on a date with one person to talk about somebody else?! Lana. And also, Cho - did I mention she annoyed the piss out of me? (This is non-acceptable het)

7. Complaint #1: Did Draco appear in more than five pages? Meh. All the more room to slash.

8. AIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

9. Percy. Well, are we really surprised there? I mean, really. Lord Acton said it best, I'll just paraphrase' Power: the *other* dark lord.'

10. Occlumency is the study of the ability to lie, but personally I just think that’s one of those things: either you’re good at it or you’re not.

11. Also, to paraphrase former Headmaster Phineas Nigellus (who I adore) ‘Slytherins know the difference between bravery and stupidity. There’s nothing wrong with being loyal, but cover your own ass first.‘ Raise your hand if you’re proud to be Slytherin!

*starts singing about Weasley being king.*

12. Complaint #2: Why does JKR never allow Harry to tell Dumbledore what the fuck is going on when the shit is really going on? Notice how it’s always ‘no, I’m not going to tell anybody how fucked up shit really is because I’m brave.‘

That’s not brave, that’s stupid (please see #11).

How the fuck are you going to fight a war if you keep holding out? That’s always fucking bugged me: how Dumbledore is the wrap-up for the book. How about Harry share some shit when it’s happening, like I dunno the whole corridor vision.

Also, nobody ever seems to finish an important thought in these books. WTF?

13. Fred and George. George and Fred. More woobie love, yo. I am all about the ‘going out with a bang’ school of thought.

14. Complaint #3/Compliment #1: Could Harry be a little bit more egotistical and self-important? No, I think not. Don’t get me wrong, it’s Harry, I’m not totally player hating, but Merlin’s goolies in a vice, what a fucking bratty teenager. Woe is me, I am so misunderstood nobody has ever suffered as I have before. Get your head out your ass and realise that everybody‘s suffering just the same, except teens seem to angst about it more than anybody else (Big love to Sev and Phineas Nigellus for pointedly saying that ‘a lot of people are idiots at the age of 15‘(Also big ups to JKR for getting that teenage self-centredness just right)).

Life is pain, highness, anyone who says differently is selling something

15. In the wizarding world getting an 'E' is a brilliant thing. I so went to the wrong school.

16. For the first 500 pages I honestly thought the superweapon was the Seed of Discord. I mean look at how everybody was behaving all pissy. A weapon doesn’t have to be big to be powerful, and again, like the sorting hat pointed out ‘divided you’ll fall.’ What better way to get what you need?

17. Chapter 28 was among with most enlightening, that was the Snape memory one for the record. Dude, James was a conceited little fucker wasn’t he? Why wasn’t he a Slytherin again? More importantly with that lineage, why wasn’t Sirius?

18. You know, since Ginny's got herself a boyfriend and stopping mooning over Harry she’s become quite likable. She’s very much a Weasley I must say.

19. Judging by Harry’s marks in Potions, I’m wondering how he’s not still taking First Year instruction, you know? Maybe Remedial Potions wasn’t a half bad idea.

20. A tenner says that Umbridge is a registered animagus as a toad.

21. I love McGonagall, she’s got some serious cojones. Word to Minerva.

22. Ron = woobie. Also, what underdog? I'm thinking the Mirror of Erised has got some other properties going on because just wishing never got me anything like that.

23. Did Umbridge’s detention freak anybody else out too? This is a book for kids? Bringing new things to the world of S&M, yo.

24. When the OWL’s began and Harry read the opening question, how many people said ‘Swish and Flick’?

25. I’ve watched a lot of movies, read a lot of books, but that action sequence at the end is probably hands down the best one I have EVER come across.

26. And last but certainly not least:

I come from the old skool: if there is no body then there is no death. Ergo, I'll be seeing Sirius in book seven I expect.


I will be more coherent after I re-read it again.

Comments

[thedormouse.livejournal.com]

Re: 14

Eh... I don't know if egotistical is the right word. In Snape's flashback _James_ was egotistical. Harry was nothing like that, as Sirius so aptly observed. (waahhh! Sirius!)

I don't know. Maybe I'm just extremely Harry biased or something, but I really didn't feel that he was as adolescently self-centered as people keep saying. I mean, yeah he yelled at Ron and Hermione a lot. But being in a bad mood is certainly not confined to teenagers, and I honestly felt Harry deserved to be angry. He had to put up with, and go through, a lot. And he did go charging into the Ministry of Mysteries, but I found Harry's rationale for that very logical. Provenly prophetic dreams + restless rebellious Sirius + NO adults around who cared = Must Save Sirius. Yeah, it was wrong, but not through any fault of Harry's. He couldn't have known because no one would tell him.

As for his behavior following Sirius' death.. I don't feel that selfless grief is possible. I think all their is is selfish grief. Sadness because someone is gone out of _your_ life and will no longer be there for _you_. That certainly doesn't make grief bad.

I don't get what is causing everyone to call Harry self-centered. I mean, Phineas made a bunch of comments about how teenagers never want anyone to understand their pain because they revel in being misunderstood-- I certainly don't see that in Harry. Certainly not anymore than it is present in everyone, teenager or others.

Hm. I really don't see it.

The views presented are mine and only mine. I'm not blaming my destiny.

[hackthis.livejournal.com]

I don't know. Maybe I'm just extremely Harry biased or something, but I really didn't feel that he was as adolescently self-centered as people keep saying. I mean, yeah he yelled at Ron and Hermione a lot. But being in a bad mood is certainly not confined to teenagers, and I honestly felt Harry deserved to be angry. He had to put up with, and go through, a lot.

I think there is a time and a place for everything, and I don't think that Harry has quite learned that yet. He certainly hasn't mastered that brilliant thing called 'tact'. Now maybe it's just me and company I've kept, but the whole running around and yelling because you're not getting your way smacks as highly immature and purile. Two year-olds scream when they don't get their way, I would expect something... not better, but more productive from Harry. As he pointed out more than once, he's done what other people have been too afraid, or too blind, to do and I don't recall him throwing a wobbler when it came down to that. I'm not saying he's not entitled to have bad patches, everyone does, and I'd certainly question him being Harry Sunshine all the time, but it seemed to me that his behaviour was a bit more appropriate to book one or two when he didn't have the benefit of so much past experience.

As for his being through a lot, yes, he has, but so has everyone else. There's a great amount of empathy and sympathy for Harry out there, and I myself feel it too, but Harry is not the only person who has ever been traumatized his life and the niggling idea that keep being presented that no one has ever suffered as he did? It urks me.

As for his behavior following Sirius' death.. I don't feel that selfless grief is possible. I think all their is is selfish grief. Sadness because someone is gone out of _your_ life and will no longer be there for _you_. That certainly doesn't make grief bad.

I don't believe I said there was anything wrong with Harry's behaviour regarding his grief over Sirius's death, on the contrary I was very moved by the scene in Dumbledore's office. My problems stem from Harry's attitude before any of that comes to pass.

Re: The views presented are mine and only mine. I'm not blaming my destiny.

[thedormouse.livejournal.com]

it seemed to me that his behaviour was a bit more appropriate to book one or two when he didn't have the benefit of so much past experience.

I disagree. In book one and two Harry was in over his head, but didn't really seem to realize it, I think. Sure it was scary, but what a great adventure. I think Harry's anger is much more appropriate now, indicative of how close he is to his breaking point. Many people have pointed out how many more references there were to the previous books in OotP. Being as we see through Harry's eyes, Harry must have also been aware of the constant referrals to the hardships of his past experiences. With things just piling on and piling on, with no end in sight, I feel the anger is v. appropriate. Much more than in the early books, when Harry was a child not able to grasp the adversity he would be coming up against in the future.


Harry is not the only person who has ever been traumatized his life and the niggling idea that keep being presented that no one has ever suffered as he did? It urks me.

Well, yes. I imagine it would. I thought this book in particular did a fantastic job of showing how he _isn't_ the only person suffering and Harry himself realizing this fact. Neville has seen his best, most sympathetic characterization to date in OotP, and IMHO Harry was considerate to him, particularly in regards to his crazy parents. Then Harry has his big crisis because his conscience is forcing him to see Snape in a sympathetic light. He even had a moment to go "oh, that's right. Ginny actually WAS possessed by Voldemort-- she's suffered too."

I don't see either JKR, Harry, or even myself as a reader putting Harry's suffering on a pedestal. Especially not in this book.

I don't believe I said there was anything wrong with Harry's behaviour regarding his grief over Sirius's death, on the contrary I was very moved by the scene in Dumbledore's office. My problems stem from Harry's attitude before any of that comes to pass.

Oh, I wasn't saying you were. I was just trying to think of all the times Harry could have been considered as acting self-centered. Since Phineas makes a lot of his comments during that scene I was looking at it from that angle, and trying to explain why Phineas' comments don't hold water for me. As you said, it was a very moving scene.

Re: The views presented are mine and only mine. I'm not blaming my destiny.

[hackthis.livejournal.com]

I think Harry's anger is much more appropriate now, indicative of how close he is to his breaking point. Many people have pointed out how many more references there were to the previous books in OotP. Being as we see through Harry's eyes, Harry must have also been aware of the constant referrals to the hardships of his past experiences. With things just piling on and piling on, with no end in sight, I feel the anger is v. appropriate. Much more than in the early books, when Harry was a child not able to grasp the adversity he would be coming up against in the future.

I agree with what you're saying, however, I think that if there had been a bit more lead-in these outbursts, in book four perhaps, then I might not have been so rankled by the huge amount of them. It seemed to me that JKR went from Harry moaning about Cho (good sign of impending puberty) straight into around the clock angst central (which, IMO, demarcates serious puberty). I'm not saying that Harry doesn't have every reason to feel constrained given the circumstances, however, it seemed as though every five seconds he was having a go at somebody and it got quite tired, very quickly.

Or, all my distaste could simply stem from how much I hated the years between 13 and 17.


Well, yes. I imagine it would. I thought this book in particular did a fantastic job of showing how he _isn't_ the only person suffering and Harry himself realizing this fact. Neville has seen his best, most sympathetic characterization to date in OotP, and IMHO Harry was considerate to him, particularly in regards to his crazy parents. Then Harry has his big crisis because his conscience is forcing him to see Snape in a sympathetic light. He even had a moment to go "oh, that's right. Ginny actually WAS possessed by Voldemort-- she's suffered too.

I agree that this book did an excellent job of showing how others have been affected by Recent Events, my complaint would be why didn't any of this excellent character analysis occur in the previous four books? It's almost like JKR woke up one morning and said, 'ah, right, if there's going to be a war I'll need to actually have some characters who people can be invested in'. Okay, maybe not quite like that, but JKR hasn't really spent a lot of time developing her other characters, and yes, I understand that the series is Harry Potter and..., but a few paragraphs here and there can do wonders, as OoTP shows.
And the more I think about it, despite whatever the title may be, I see these books are being about much more than just Harry. He's a nice vessel, but he could be anybody.

Overall, I adored the book. It was well-written and engaging and I thought it was fucking brilliant, but I'm not going to excuse pissy behaviour just because it's Harry behaving that way. I understand the natural premise that without Harry none of this would exist, but my love of HP doesn't stem from him as a character but rather the world that JKR has created.

Re: The views presented are mine and only mine. I'm not blaming my destiny.

[thepouncer.livejournal.com]

I agree that this book did an excellent job of showing how others have been affected by Recent Events, my complaint would be why didn't any of this excellent character analysis occur in the previous four books?

Because Harry had yet to wake up to the fact that others are seperate from him. I distinctly remember my adolescent years, where the concepts of "myself" and "others" finally became clear. Harry is learning to care about other people for themselves, not just in relation to him. It's the beginning of analytic thought about other people, beyond the "I hate him" "I love her" stage. I though JKR did a fantastic job of portraying a 15 year old boy who's been seriously traumatized and whose already fragile support systems are being taken away.

Re: The views presented are mine and only mine. I'm not blaming my destiny.

[hackthis.livejournal.com]

Because Harry had yet to wake up to the fact that others are seperate from him. I distinctly remember my adolescent years, where the concepts of "myself" and "others" finally became clear. Harry is learning to care about other people for themselves, not just in relation to him. It's the beginning of analytic thought about other people, beyond the "I hate him" "I love her" stage. I though JKR did a fantastic job of portraying a 15 year old boy who's been seriously traumatized and whose already fragile support systems are being taken away.

Okay, so we're back to #14 wherein I gave kudos and complaints for making Harry into a realistic teen. My problem was never the realism of that, my issue was that it was so realistic that it was painful. Teens are a rather self-involved species.