And to think I was trying to spare myself.

[hackthis_archive]

ETA: Okay, I wrote it, posted it, decided I didn't need the blood pressure issues, got yelled at for closing it off (antheia AND copracat), and said, ah well, fuck it. Have at it.


Okay, I don't know what I love more about defamer that they throw in the phrase "manager who lives in the TV set" in reference to Kevin Connolly -- Eric to the Entourage folk -- or that they do a complete dissection of Ari appearing on the cover of Los Angeles. Oh, hey, guess who was on last month's cover? George. Yeah, I tell no lies. You want something really wild? I wrote about Ari being on the cover last week as a lark, but didn't actually know he was going to be on it. Yeah, smoke that one.

---

In other news, after reading this article* issaro asked, "Where are the naked men?" which is such a valid question, it's really is a bit like that advert, "Where's the beef?"

To which she, serialkarma and I then had an exchange about how society views the male and female bodies, who sees what as erotic*, why Playgirl is just scary, and why everybody should just keep their clothes on. Unless your name is Tom Welling.




hackthis: //"Men just aren't viewed as sex objects in the same way that women are," Min says. // Um, on what planet is this? Naked men aren't hot? Uh, maybe not to her, but to me, hell yeah! The female form, you know, I have one, doesn't really interest me all that much as long as it doesn't break down, but the male form? Right on. Obviously this is why no one thinks I could ever be a lesbian.

serialkarma: You realize she meant in a societal sense, right? In which case, I think she totally has a point. Also about how we aren't trained to view the male body in an erotic way the way we are the female body--even straight women. Ever looked at a Playgirl? A friend of mine had a subscription in college, and we all used to look at and go "Huh. You know, I think they'd be sexier with clothes. The nude male just looks kind of funny.

issaro: It is a good point. But there's the flip side she doesn't discuss. Women also take off their clothes because it gives them power. The nude female form can be and is extremely powerful. Men just feel vulnerable when nude. Whether it's a good thing or bad that that's how women get power is being debated in the article but either way it's power and I don't think men have the same sense of empowerment when naked. If that makes any sense?

hackthis: You know I just don't see the female body as erotic. At all. I have one, so not interested. Playgirl, okay, that's just wrong because they're all waxed, Mystic tanned and photoshopped to within an inch of their lives. It's just weird. And wrong. I mean, do *you* feel empowered when you're naked? [I just tend to feel a bit cold]



So, now I bring the question to you lot: What do you find erotic? Why? Why not? Do you feel empowered when you're naked or would you rather have sex full clothed and through a sheet (hey, the religions may be on to something here)? Does this whole women are empowered through nudity sound like a crock of shit to you, too? Why can't we be empowered in our pyjamas? Why does Janet Jackson get publically flogged for life for flashing at the Super Bowl? Why are men who appear naked in films seen as "brave" when it's almost de rigeur for women? Who made up these rules and where can we find him (because you know it's a man) to do very vile and unseemly things to him in the name of 'empowerment'?


Plese note that this is to be a proper discussion. I trust you all know how to behave without resorting to name-calling, unless you're talking trash about Tom Ford or the chauvisnistic industry structure, then it's okay.


*I should point out that I have said Vanity Fair and my only thoughts upon seeing said article where a) Tom Ford has no place on that cover b) Both girls could stand to eat more and c) More importantly, why are they on this cover? Neither one of them could act their way out of a paper bag!

Comments

[sparky77.livejournal.com]

I'm going go all historical on you in just a sec, but first as to what I find erotic, I know it's kind of cop-out, but I really think it's all about context. If I'm in a hospital room with a rape survivor, there is nothing erotic about the female body, but that same body in a different situation could be highly erotic. I've also been at events where lots of people walk around nude, so then nudity becomes just a fact of nature and not at all erotic. I think eroticism has a lot to do with temptation. If there's no temptation, it can't be erotic. I think. Maybe.

As for the whole tangled mess of sex, nudity, and power with women, I tend to blame everything on men's madonna/whore complexes. There's always been this dichotomy that men believe they can be saved by a woman's purity, but they also believe they are helpless before a woman's sexual wiles. So, yes women can have power over men by using their sexuality, but in doing so they are buying into the bullshit notion that men are rendered helpless and out of control by their sexual urges.

I guess it becomes a matter of women either choosing to play the bullshit game and play it to win even though it's a stupid game or women who refuse to play the game at all. And I think that metaphor only made sense in my head.

Why are men who appear naked in films seen as "brave" when it's almost de rigeur for women?

I think it's simply because women are supposed to be objectified, but for a man to be willing to become objectified, it's see as risky and daring.

This is not to say I think objectification is bad. You can objectify someone and respect them in morning, but that the playing field between men and women is not equal and it will never be equal until people are willing to acknowledge the inequalities.

I'm not sure how coherent that was or how much sense I made.

[elfiepike.livejournal.com]

You can objectify someone and respect them in morning.

I want a t-shirt that says that. I spend most of my free-time objectifying as many people as possible, because people in general have very appreciatable figures.

[hackthis.livejournal.com]

As for the whole tangled mess of sex, nudity, and power with women, I tend to blame everything on men's madonna/whore complexes. There's always been this dichotomy that men believe they can be saved by a woman's purity, but they also believe they are helpless before a woman's sexual wiles. So, yes women can have power over men by using their sexuality, but in doing so they are buying into the bullshit notion that men are rendered helpless and out of control by their sexual urges.

Men, they have issues. ;) Not all men (doesn't want to offend the boys who come around here) but a good amount.