And to think I was trying to spare myself.

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ETA: Okay, I wrote it, posted it, decided I didn't need the blood pressure issues, got yelled at for closing it off (antheia AND copracat), and said, ah well, fuck it. Have at it.


Okay, I don't know what I love more about defamer that they throw in the phrase "manager who lives in the TV set" in reference to Kevin Connolly -- Eric to the Entourage folk -- or that they do a complete dissection of Ari appearing on the cover of Los Angeles. Oh, hey, guess who was on last month's cover? George. Yeah, I tell no lies. You want something really wild? I wrote about Ari being on the cover last week as a lark, but didn't actually know he was going to be on it. Yeah, smoke that one.

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In other news, after reading this article* issaro asked, "Where are the naked men?" which is such a valid question, it's really is a bit like that advert, "Where's the beef?"

To which she, serialkarma and I then had an exchange about how society views the male and female bodies, who sees what as erotic*, why Playgirl is just scary, and why everybody should just keep their clothes on. Unless your name is Tom Welling.




hackthis: //"Men just aren't viewed as sex objects in the same way that women are," Min says. // Um, on what planet is this? Naked men aren't hot? Uh, maybe not to her, but to me, hell yeah! The female form, you know, I have one, doesn't really interest me all that much as long as it doesn't break down, but the male form? Right on. Obviously this is why no one thinks I could ever be a lesbian.

serialkarma: You realize she meant in a societal sense, right? In which case, I think she totally has a point. Also about how we aren't trained to view the male body in an erotic way the way we are the female body--even straight women. Ever looked at a Playgirl? A friend of mine had a subscription in college, and we all used to look at and go "Huh. You know, I think they'd be sexier with clothes. The nude male just looks kind of funny.

issaro: It is a good point. But there's the flip side she doesn't discuss. Women also take off their clothes because it gives them power. The nude female form can be and is extremely powerful. Men just feel vulnerable when nude. Whether it's a good thing or bad that that's how women get power is being debated in the article but either way it's power and I don't think men have the same sense of empowerment when naked. If that makes any sense?

hackthis: You know I just don't see the female body as erotic. At all. I have one, so not interested. Playgirl, okay, that's just wrong because they're all waxed, Mystic tanned and photoshopped to within an inch of their lives. It's just weird. And wrong. I mean, do *you* feel empowered when you're naked? [I just tend to feel a bit cold]



So, now I bring the question to you lot: What do you find erotic? Why? Why not? Do you feel empowered when you're naked or would you rather have sex full clothed and through a sheet (hey, the religions may be on to something here)? Does this whole women are empowered through nudity sound like a crock of shit to you, too? Why can't we be empowered in our pyjamas? Why does Janet Jackson get publically flogged for life for flashing at the Super Bowl? Why are men who appear naked in films seen as "brave" when it's almost de rigeur for women? Who made up these rules and where can we find him (because you know it's a man) to do very vile and unseemly things to him in the name of 'empowerment'?


Plese note that this is to be a proper discussion. I trust you all know how to behave without resorting to name-calling, unless you're talking trash about Tom Ford or the chauvisnistic industry structure, then it's okay.


*I should point out that I have said Vanity Fair and my only thoughts upon seeing said article where a) Tom Ford has no place on that cover b) Both girls could stand to eat more and c) More importantly, why are they on this cover? Neither one of them could act their way out of a paper bag!

Comments

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Guys who aren't overdone. Bulging muscles, those huge six-pack don't really do it for me. If you're going to be flashing all that, keep your clothes on. You look better that way to me, probably because I can pretend you're not that big. It's just huge guys weird me out. However, skinny guys are kinda hot and I can handle those in the middle. Still, it's not the nakedness that I find really erotic. It's the eyes, man. The eyes! Wentworth Miller's stare puts me in heat. Tom Welling's makes me shiver. Alex Kapranos' eyes makes me feel all nervously excited to see all his secrets. Jason Mraz's makes me feel all goofy flirtateous. Hayden Christensen's makes me want to fuck him. Hard. Preferably with a ten inch dildo. Yeah, I know.

You had me right until you got to Franz Ferdinand, but I whole-heartedly agree with the whole big muscles thing being a huge turn-off. That's somewhere past excessive into scary land.

However, getting naked does give you power, much in the same way having a lot of money givs you power. Everyone wants money! If you want to persuade someone to do something, money is a great way to go about it. Likewise with getting naked. They're also similar in that they're considered unethical ways of getting what you want. In my mind, part of women moving along is this world is that we've been given the tools and the opportunity to gain power without getting naked. To me, the fact that we're still getting naked to achieve power is basically solidifying a viewpoint that even when all the tools for success and attention are at our fingertips, we still pick the most basic, easiest, and least respectful way of achieving it.

I agree with you right up to the point where you say that women have been given the tools to get ahead without resorting to getting naked. I sadly think that this VF cover proves otherwise, since if that were true, they could've had Keira and Scarlett naked and Rachel could've just sat in Tom Ford's place fully clothed, but no. She decided she didn't want to play the game and so they said, "Ha! No cover for you."