hackthis_archive ([personal profile] hackthis_archive) wrote2004-01-26 04:32 pm

Is being pretty really all that?

I’m over here shifting through Jude Law photographs for Draco icons, and I remembered a conversation that I had with somebody last week (possibly in RL, possibly with [livejournal.com profile] serialkarma or [livejournal.com profile] ethrosdemon) and now I must inquire what other people think. The gist of the conversation had to do with Boys vs. Men vs. The Others, i.e. Beautiful Men and who really comes out on top.

Now, we all know what Boys are. We date ‘boys.’ We think boys are cute. We refer to them as The Boy. Ryan Gosling is a boy. Dom Monaghan is a boy. We all love boys. They are adorable. They wear Chuck Taylors and cute second-hand shirts. They belch, and we just roll our eyes. They have beer nights with *their* boys and we just smirk, because they are boys, and we expect this, because boys are not *men*. Men are another species altogether.

Men sometimes have facial hair. They generally own more than one suit, and it’s a good suit, too! A fair amount own property. They can cook more than one meal without burning it. Men have deeper voices, and they exude testosterone. “Men” tend to make your ovaries act funny. George Clooney is a man. Johnny Depp is a man. Brad Pitt in all his 40-year-old glory is a man. Men are good. Boys are good. People take them seriously to the best of their ability, but what happens when you come to those with the XY chromosomes who don’t quite fit the mould? I speak, naturally, of Beautiful Men.

I generally stick Beautiful Men in the “Other” category, because they are not quite men, but they’re not quite boys either. They are a category unto themselves. Whereas Men make your ovaries hurt, Beautiful Men give you cramps. You walk into walls. You forget how to speak. Beautiful Men tend to make women, and other men, act kind of stupid. You forgive the belching and scratching and other pet peeves. BM’s make us all a little messy, and they tend to bring down the average IQ in every room they enter. Jude Law is a beautiful man. Tom Welling may not be Einstein, but when he smiles, people do not fucking care. He is a beautiful man. And yet, in a society where everybody wants to be flawless and thin and *perfect* (whatever the hell that is), is it really better to be an “Other?”

I suspect it must be a bit harder to be taken seriously if you’re a Beautiful Man, because who really cares what you have to say? You look good; people don’t want to hear your thoughts on global warming! So, is it better to be beautiful, but not preternaturally so? Can life really be hard when you look like Jude Law? In an recent Details interview, he talked about 2003 being the worst year of his life. He split with his wife, their divorce was all over the rags, and then he had to explain it all to his children. This cannot have been easy by any account, but it makes you wonder -- people have to go through this same thing everyday, so it’s not like he’s the first person to have a messy divorce. And yet, do you think people have more sympathy for him because he’s good looking or less? Why? Do we always feel this way about people we consider to be more attractive than normal? Why? Is it jealousy? Conditioning? I understand the scientific explanations about feature placement and the way that humans tend to desire symmetry, etc, but I really do have to ask, do people think that life is better for the pretty people just because they can get in a club easier or a few free drinks?

Do you guys think being attractive all it’s cracked up to be? And who would you rather have? A Man, a Boy or an Other?

*Who knew Jude Law could make anybody think so hard!

[Poll #239134]

[identity profile] hackthis.livejournal.com 2004-01-27 06:38 pm (UTC)(link)
I wasn't insinuating that Jude didn't have a bad year, only that everyone has bad days/months/years, and I was curious as to whether or not people were inclined to feel more or less sympathy/empathy for Jude because he was good-looking/famous/rick as opposed to simply feeling badly simply because he had a rough go of it.

I think the happiest are probably those who are just good looking enough to make things a little easier, just smart enough to take advantage of the situation, and wise enough to be happy no matter what happens. Moderation in all things, etc.

I don't tend to think anybody is as happy as they suspect everyone else it. I think it's a matter of the grass always looking greener elsewhere. When you're not as asthetically appealing, you think that being moreso might make things better. When you're more appealing, it seems that you think it might be easier to be little less, because then you might be taken more seriously.

*Note: Purely using 'you' in the generic sense here.

[identity profile] hackthis.livejournal.com 2004-01-27 06:39 pm (UTC)(link)
I am all about the Man. I have dated boys in the past, and while they are cute and fluffy, they are not what I'm looking for right now. I want to find The Man, who I can love forever and who I want to combine my genes with. I'm picky about this matter, you understand.

I agree 100%.

[identity profile] hackthis.livejournal.com 2004-01-27 06:41 pm (UTC)(link)
Since this question is about ending up with someone, not the happily pretty side trips along the way, I had to choose "A Man" because frankly I am far too old to think about dealing with A Boy the rest of my life, and far too spoiled in finally liking myself to go back to the serious inadequacies I felt were being highlighted when with the BP. I want A Man with a brain and several extremely hot suits and the ability to cook for me when he feels like it, not just when I start to whine that it's his turn. Someone I can take seriously, you know?

Word. One big plate of word, just for you. A man who cooks and looks good doing it. Oh, yes.

It might be harder to feel some sense of connection to The BP. I mean, really, how many of us can get what it's like to be looked at that way? There's got to be a built in sense of resentment whether we acknowledge it or not. BP have learned early and often that being Beautiful is often enough and very very few of them ever make the effort to do anything else. Is this a fair statement? Eh, probably not. But based on my rather small experience, it's still true. Beautiful men and Beautiful women get more breaks than the average citizen. It ain't fair, but it's really hard to feel bad for them when life dumps badness on them the way it dumps on the rest of us.

Color me cynical, eh?


I was just going to color you pink, but we can do cynical if you want. What color do you think that is? Forest green? Maize? Cornflower blue? And thank you so much for answering my question. *adores*

[identity profile] hackthis.livejournal.com 2004-01-27 06:42 pm (UTC)(link)
First, I think you define the difference between boys, men, and beautiful men perfectly. I currently have a beautiful man working as an intern in my office. Jude Law beautiful and just today I walked into a wall in his presence. Well, not a wall exactly, more like the doorjamb but still off the scale embarrassing. Next year I am asking for a slightly less attractive intern to cut down on bruising and stuttering.

*dies*

Now as for which one I would rather have, well, that's messy. When my guy leaves the house M-F he's a man, suit, cell, SUV, the whole nine yards. But on the evenings and weekends he's a Chuck Taylor wearing, dude saying, beer drinking, pizza eating boy. And when he's with his boys? He's all of 13, 14 tops.

I think a hybrid is the way to go these days.


You are a lucky woman. Most of us can only hope for something quite so good.

[identity profile] hackthis.livejournal.com 2004-01-27 06:52 pm (UTC)(link)
The Boyish Man. That seems to be what everybody really wants; I shall be addressing him in my post this morning.

[identity profile] hackthis.livejournal.com 2004-01-27 07:05 pm (UTC)(link)
I've heard of this before, I think it had just slipped my mind. Thank you so much for reminding me. Also, I have not forgotten about your drabble, just FYI.

[identity profile] hackthis.livejournal.com 2004-01-27 07:11 pm (UTC)(link)
I don't think we tend to feel more sympathy for beautiful people/men, but less, because we figure they must suffer in some way. We have to suffer and be ordinary, the least they can do is suffer gloriously gorgeously for our benefit. The press and media do their best to make them "poor, little, rich people" and, while they do have their problems, I think much of their problems are fostered by the lifestyles they chose. Perhaps cynical, but also logical. Some don't chose the life (royalty, for example) but they do have a choice in how they adapt and live in it.

I don't agree with all of that, but I agree with enough of it. I mean the entertainment industry by defintion is about entertaining *other* people, which really forces you to be out in the spotlight, and if you don't want to be in everyone's faces then why would you choose it? And yet, by that same degree, I think that everyone should be entitled to a little privacy, which really doesn't tend to exist as it should. If you continually put yourself out there, then no, I will have no sympathy, but otherwise I can have some. Just a little.

Also, sex with pretty boys is not bad, but I distinctly remember making a point about this to somebody else, and I quote: "I don't like pretty people. [They're] Nice to look at, generally, nice to fuck - if they're not too busy asking about their best side, but I prefer people with character. Pretty people, inevitably, bore the shit out of me."

So, yeah, that's my .02.

[identity profile] hackthis.livejournal.com 2004-01-27 07:11 pm (UTC)(link)
Yes, I realize that I forgot that selection in the poll, my bad!

[identity profile] hackthis.livejournal.com 2004-01-27 07:19 pm (UTC)(link)
I love Boys, but I don't want to end up with one. Or rather, I want a Boy who's become a Man by the time I get him, because otherwise, that's a lot of work.

I agree with you completely.

I can't even begin to fathom the Beautiful Others.

What a delicious oxymoron. There are lots of people who would quip that there's nothing to fathom in the first place.

[identity profile] serialkarma.livejournal.com 2004-01-27 07:27 pm (UTC)(link)
I believe it's harder to relate to someone who find too beautiful because it's intimidating and intimidation is a form of attack. And people want to protect themselves from attack, so they don't consider the human aspect as much as they might with someone they don't find as intimidating, i.e. as beautiful.

This is a very good point, and it can also apply to not just the beautiful, rich and/or famous, but anyone who has, you know, more of something. Intellect, for instance--something similar often happens with kids who are smarter than the others and do better in school, which is something I can relate to a lot more easily.

And then there's the question of why exactly it is we find beauty intimidating, and that's a whole 'nother issue, I suspect.

Speaking of Jude Law looking like something you want to pick up at a store and lick, have you seen the photo spread from this month's Flaunt?

No, but now I will have to go look for it, because I can be as highbrow and theoretical as the next geek, but when it comes down to it, I'm all about the staring and the drooling.

[identity profile] hackthis.livejournal.com 2004-01-27 07:39 pm (UTC)(link)
I'm not playing "poor-pretty-me" here, either. I am not inclined to perpetuate my victimology, since I've survived more than I would wish on anyone and I'm stronger for the experience. But here's the thing: *Everyone* likes to feel attractive, no matter what they look like. It's a great feeling to know that your appearance is appreciated ... even if it's a completly shallow observation. I love to people-watch, and I think it's fine as long as boundaries are respected. All the problems I've encountered have involved people disrespecting the healthy boundary lines between me and them.

Without going too deep, I will simply like to say that I identify and empathize with everything you've just said. I, too, enjoy people watching and observing the wonder that is human interaction, and yet, I have a very hardline about any sort of 'us' versus 'them.' In a nutshell, I don't see an 'us' and 'them'; I see a 'me' and 'you.' I don't know you, you don't know me. Do not presume otherwise, do not infringe on my privacy and we will all get along fine. (Generic 'you') Naturally, the problems come when people don't follow the old adage 'look, but don't touch.' It's unfortunate but true.

It's worth considering who we do and don't endow with power--the pretty, the wealthy, the talented, the brilliant, etc--and what we expect of them in return. If we give Jude our fannish devotion, are we expecting him to let us into his home for dinner? I wouldn't dare to presume,

I should hope not, in terms of expecting anything from anyone, but I tend to take the rather hardline with that sort of thing anyway. I think the presumption that by enjoying someone's work that you are entitled to any part of their life and they are entitled to give it to you is appalling and wrong. IMO, no one is entitled to anything, everything should be earned.

[identity profile] ethrosdemon.livejournal.com 2004-01-27 07:48 pm (UTC)(link)
I totally picked MAN, and I think we both know who I have in mind. Actually, I just like men better in general. But you know that.

[identity profile] ethrosdemon.livejournal.com 2004-01-27 07:51 pm (UTC)(link)
the comic shop is well and fine, but wouldn't you rather have someone who could fix the toilet, get ellusive rugby tickets and be able to afford the $300 bottle of perfume for your birthday?

*sigh* Actually, I'm in a foul mood and I hate everyone today. But the rugby would still be good.

[identity profile] hackthis.livejournal.com 2004-01-27 07:54 pm (UTC)(link)
I'd have to say I want a Man. There's something about the transformations between a boy in his twenties and a man in his 30s/40s. Older men are just so...*sexy*. They're playful and fun, but in different ways than a Boy. Five years ago, I'd have said Boy. Now I just want a Man who understands that sometimes, I just gotta have my alone time, and who respects me and gets the whole concept of independence. I've done the "dating a Boy who is five years younger than I am" thing, and while it made me feel young and silly and great, I'd rather come home to a Man who's settled into who he is. And also, who has lots of experience with sex and doesn't mind sharing his knowledge. All the time. *W*

You are not helping matters, Lyra, you keep talking about men and all their scruffy, hot *Men* glory and I keep thinking about George sodding Clooney, who is like, alllll man. And... and I can't think! Damn you!

[identity profile] hackthis.livejournal.com 2004-01-27 07:55 pm (UTC)(link)
Yes, I realize that I left off that catagory and I apologise profusely. Myt bad!

[identity profile] ethrosdemon.livejournal.com 2004-01-27 07:56 pm (UTC)(link)
word on the motorbike, even though I really really hate them every guy I was ever serious about had one. why? I have some serious mental issues, apparently.

[identity profile] hackthis.livejournal.com 2004-01-27 07:56 pm (UTC)(link)
I know I know I know. After everybody pointed out that I'd really not mentioned that, which is totally what *I* want, I went back and talked about it in today's entry. No worries, and made shout outs! You'll see.

[identity profile] hackthis.livejournal.com 2004-01-27 07:57 pm (UTC)(link)
It's not happened to me, but I've seen it happen to other people. Oh, but I have forgotten how to speak before.

[identity profile] hackthis.livejournal.com 2004-01-27 07:57 pm (UTC)(link)
You're obsessed. You're a tinkilt now! Make pretty icons! I need some! You need some!

[identity profile] hackthis.livejournal.com 2004-01-27 07:58 pm (UTC)(link)
Why did you use this icon? Man, go away!

[identity profile] hackthis.livejournal.com 2004-01-27 07:59 pm (UTC)(link)
I like my man to sparkle!

You want a drag queen?

*winks*

[identity profile] hackthis.livejournal.com 2004-01-27 08:05 pm (UTC)(link)
I think you get your point across beautifully. I do agree with you about Beautiful Men being victimized by the whole V Pretty = V Stupid, and yet, even when they're being victimized they can still turn it to their advantage faster than I think a normal/less attractive person would. When you see a BM, you think, dumb. If he starts talking about Rocket Science, you're thrilled, you think Hot & Smart = Winner. Whereas with Mr Normal, if he starts talking Rocket Science you think, oh, god, boring, and perhaps not as good looking as [insert person of choice here]. That's an uphill battle both ways. I think everybody's kind of stuck, you know?
joatamon: (Default)

[personal profile] joatamon 2004-01-27 08:06 pm (UTC)(link)
I usually just start giggling helplessly. And the image of how pathetic I look just makes me giggle more.

And then there's the drooling...

[identity profile] hackthis.livejournal.com 2004-01-27 08:12 pm (UTC)(link)
I don't meta here, like ever, since inevitably I tend to digress fifty times and tangent away from whatever I'm trying to say, but to know that you, Queen Meta, thought I made my case well makes me very happy. As for the BM-problem (it sounds like something a three year-old would suffer from) I suspect that it's a matter of life always seeming easier for everyone else. It's the green grass effect, which I like to illustrate with a quote from Trainspotting: "Got no money, can't get drunk. Got money, drinking too much. Got no girl, no chance of a ride. Gotta girl, too much hassle." It's always something for someone, you know?

[identity profile] hackthis.livejournal.com 2004-01-27 08:13 pm (UTC)(link)
Also? If you find yourself saying, "Honey, I need you to play the quiet game now" more than three times a week? It's time to break up.

*dies laughing*

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