hackthis_archive | I don't meta, I babble.

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wait -- i'm having a thought

I don't meta, I babble.

I have learned a few things today. I am going to share them. It's called Tell & Tell.

1. Opening your self up to people is some seriously fucking scary shit. Sometimes it works out, and sometimes you remember why you lost faith to begin with.

2. Turin Brakes. Anybody else notice that Gale looks like Weiss from Alias?

3. .

ethrosdemon is always giving me shit about my distaste for the female protagonists in my (current and prior) fandoms: Lana, Hermione, Anna, Summer, Chloe, Rogue, etc etc... and I've thought about it and it basically comes down to my inability to relate to them on the personal level I need to feel a decent affinity with my character, and therefore write them in what I consider to be "in character."

For example, with a character like Lex, yes, I adore him because he's clearly mental and unhinged and full of great ideas and not so great follow-through. It's nice that he's pretty and bald and clearly so in love, when he does fall in love. That's all nice, I agree -- kind of like chocolate milk is nice. But I don't love chocolate milk; I like skim. I like the stripped down, Lex to-the-core who's devoted and sneaky and is all about being morally questionable. Before everybody shouts, 'he's evol!' let me point out that I didn't say I loved Lex Luthor, I said I loved Lex. There is a difference. Lex wants to be great; Lex Luthor doesn't think he has any choice. Lex wants; Lex Luthor is willing to kill for his obsessions. I'm digressing.

The point in all this is that Lex is multi-faceted and complex. He has character. He's three-dimensional and full of holes and faults. These characteristics don't appear in Clark to the same degree, and you can forget about Lana. And yes, some of those characteristics apply to Chloe too, but not in the same way. There are things I see in Lex that I've done and actions that I identify with. I can identify with the questionable past and actions and the sense of 'I'm trying even if I keep fucking up'. I don't identify with the 16 year-old some-what irritating Girl Friday. I don't identify with the homecoming queen. This does not make those points of view any less valid, I just don't identify with them.

I also don't get 'the obvious hero' thing. I don't relate to the good overcoming evil at all costs. I don't even think there should be a scale, because to me there's nothing good or bad, there's just the gray area in between. Which means that any female character who's tossing around any sort of 'all XYZ are evil' just immediately turns me off.

And then when you have a character like Hermione, the know-it-all, who always has the answers and is first in her class, I can't even stomach that sort of business. Not only do I not have all the answers, a lot of the time I don't even know the question... but I do believe in faking it until you can sort things out. Which pretty much makes me a Slytherin by default. Hermione, however, is just too flawless. The hair and the teeth are just red herrings to hide her ability to be everything to everybody all the time. You know what? Trying to do that is ridiculous and implausible. No one can be everything to everybody all the time, and she just seems to be the ultimate deus ex machina -- if Hermione says it is so and so it must be. She grates on all my nerves until they're shredded and I want to AK her myself.

Summer? Too vapid, though she has promise. Anna? Too understanding. Marissa? Oh please, spare me. And the day I decide I want to be Stella Kowalski or Frannie Vecchio, you have my permission to shoot me.

IMO, the female protagonists these days all seem to be perky, Girl-Fridays who put up with being stepped all over or princesses who pretend to have all their shit together. That's not me. It's never been me. The last female character I related to was Bridget Jones. And before that it was Angela Chase. You all remember her, right? The fifteen year-old girl from My So-Called Life with the bad dye job who was in love with somebody who maybe was or wasn't in love with her. Angela wasn't the head of anything or the perfect anything. She had spots! And she hated her sister! And she didn't get on with her parents and she sometimes she was really mean and petty and shallow, but not all the time, and she was fucking brilliant at it.

I haven't seen anybody like her since. So until society gets it through their thick heads that women aren't perfect, and, in fact, have spots and fall in love with people who aren't supermen or saviours of wizarding kind, I'll just keep on relating on these male characters who are at least allowed to have faults.

*ETN: I never loved Buffy, but I did think Faith was the shit, at least until they stuck her in a coma. Plus, hey, eventual redemption and all that nonsense.

4.

- So this is what dS looks like when they give them money! Why don't we have car chases on network TV anymore? Man, TV execs suck!

- Chicago? Beautiful place. God, imagine what S3&4 could've been with a real budget. Again, TV execs suck.

- When you watch a lot of episodes back to back, you really get an idea of what's stock repeat footage. The El going into the city at night anybody?

- The season as a whole was great, but it didn't really suck me in until 'Gift of the Wheelman' - at that point I realised I was running circles in my flat and by the 'The Man Who knew Too Little' (evol!Turnbull) I was just beside myself, literally.

- Fraser is the woobiest woobie that ever did woobie.

teenygozer wrote this beautiful explanation in

nifra_idril's LJ of why she was so disappointed in season 3&4 Fraser versus seasons 1&2 that I didn't really get that until I saw this. Oh, how I wish PG hadn't decided to change Fraser from the way he was, because S1 Fraser is just... He's so amazing.

I mean yes, he's lonely and clearly insane and full of good intentions that generally don't come out right, but he's so amazingly flawed. Oh, he's so flawed... It makes him so appealing to me. It doesn't really hurt that mygodisthatmanfine.

serialkarma wants PG to play Cary Grant, I just want to see him shirtless again. Or covered up. Dude, I don't care. That scene in 'The Deal' when Elaine was cleaning Fraser's cuts? Okay, a) so that's what really chemistry looks like between the male & female leads, who knew? b) It was so hot my eyeballs have scorch marks.

- How can people hate on Vecchio? He is Teh Man! A balding Italian man with questionable fashion sense, but a man nevertheless. He's so devoted to Fraser; I'm just in awe. He was Teh Shit in 'The Deal' too! I think watching this season of dS may be the first time in years that I've watched a show and thought, 'no, no slash, but YES, they are friends'. This is what friendship should be like. This is fucking devotion.

- So, who wrote the meta comparing the Vecchio/Suzanne Chambers storyline in 'You Must Remember This' to the Fraser/Victoria thing? I know it must be out there; it was so obvious I still have a bruise from the anvil.

- I fucking loved the fathers/son storyline in 'The Gift of the Wheelman'. It was just... AHHHHHHHH! Ray talking to his father too. Plus, Dead!Bob! He really does have the best intentions, of course those are always jacked up, but he tries.

- I hated 'Invitation to Romance' (the episode with Jane Krakowski from Ally McBeal) because of the female lead. She made my eyes hurt and my ears bleed.

- Victoria's Secret ripped my undead heart out my chest and threw it into Lake Michigan. That kind of devotion and love and revenge you just don't get much these days. It's v sad. That Victoria put Fraser through all that, and he still wanted her just proved a) how nuts he is b) how devoted he can be c) Fraser's fucking crazy.

- I'm sure I have other thoughts but they're not forthcoming right now, but what I'd really like is some friendship Vecchio/Fraser. Does that exist, kids, or am I searching for the Holy Grail?

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I was surprised and oddly miffed at the shift as well, but my simple answer is this: focus on Fraser in seasons 1 &2 and focus on Kowalski in seasons 3 &4. It's not a perfect solution, but it works because there's also a provision to focus intently on Vecchio when he goes all BBS on us. Guh.

*covers eyes*

NOOOOOOOOOOO! Put that icon away, I'm working on TA. Really. Stop.

There used to be a due south general archive that had all these great Vecchio/Fraser friendship stories, and great characterization of the rest of the cast. Don't know if it still exist though. But yeah, Vecchio is the best friend, the brother, I loved all 3 seasons, sigh, DS was the best.

Oops! I meant to post a reply to your comment, but instead posted a brand new comment. I put a link to the due South Archive you mentioned in my new comment! (see below)

As much as I love RayK, seasons 1 and 2 were some ridiculously good television. Just - yes. I would have told you about it if I'd know you needed telling. :)

So nice to see the Vecchio love. He's funny looking... then he SMILES and you see how damned attractive he is. That damned smile just sucks you in. You forget the shirt (icky though it is.)

The Due South Fiction Archive (http://www.squidge.org/dsa/) can be found at that link. It's huge, has plenty of gen, het, and slash fiction, with a search function. HUGE, I tells ya. It appears that

speranza is the friendly neighborhood archivist.

MUST PLUG OUR SITE! To find the DS fiction of Seah, Sealie, and Celeste, go to The Sibilant Storybook (http://www.trickster.org/storybook/), so named due to the s-s-s-s-sibilant names of the three fic writers thereon. Sealie's been messing about with it recently and updating, I just want to send some people over her way to admire her work. The stories on this site are of the Fraser-and-Vecchio-buddy-adventure sort. I seem to remember Seah and I in particular were trying to write stories that were like actual episodes of the show, with a compelling mystery plot, clues, true-to-the-show characterization and banter, and the like. Not slash, but devoted buddies and friendship.

Hee, okay, this is where I show up and give my massively different take on Hermione's characterization. Yeah she's smart; she's FAR from perfect. Rowling's said her know-it-all-ness is an attempt to cover up for her insecurity, which I totally buy. She's very socially awkward -- doesn't get along with the girls in her year (or any girls apart from Ginny), is often teased, only makes friends with Ron & Harry because of shared danger, and even then is constantly naggy and bossy because she's booksmart but not people smart. It's only in GoF and OotP that we begin to see her have a sense of emotional intelligence, but even then it's far from perfect. And who among us can't relate to social awkwardness? She's also flawed intelligence-wise: in OotP alone, Remus (?) points out her mistake in assuming the dingy pub would be more covert than the popular one and way more importantly she's the one who writes Dumbledore's Army on top of the paper that eventually falls into Umbridge's hand, causing Dumbledore to have to leave Hogwarts and run from the government. So yeah she's bright, but she's full of flaws and, imho, totally accessible as a character. (Much along the lines of Willow, in many respects.)

But I'm one of those horrible people who gets all indignant at the slighting of female characters by fandom, so. Also, boy characters tend to bore me. :)

I don't think that my dislike of a good majority of female characters can be seen as a slighting by an entire fandom; I'd hate to have to represent the interests of so many people. ;)

Having said that, however, I think a lot of this may simply come down to a matter of character preference and perspective. From what I've gathered, it appears to me that when you look at Hermione, you see someone you can sympathize with, someone who tries despite her short-comings. When I look at her, I simply get annoyed. Her characterization doesn't ring any bells with me unlike that of Neville or Dean or even Ron. Again, I can only speak for myself since I know of plenty of people who love Hermione.

Hee, well, no, I don't define you as the entirety of fandom. ;) I think I have a weird perspective on fandom as a whole, 'cause I tend to live deep within the heart of m/m territory, by virtue of people I hang out with. I'm sure there are tons of people writing het and gen and f/f, I just don't know (m)any of them.

And yes, did my love for Hermione show? ;) But I also deeply adore Neville and Ron and Ginny and etc etc, so I'm just a slut in general. And you, with Dean and Lex and all! Look how gorgeous our diversity is. <g>

I have that same issue with female protagonist and have been made to feel like I'm letting down the feminist side, but I just don't think I should have to like a character just because she's a girl. My issues are more with the mostly male writers who are presenting their idea of a cool, ideal girl which is going to be far, far different from my own ideas of what makes a girl admirable, interesting, and fun.

Amen, sister.

It just seems to me that a lot of girls are really being girls, but instead are representations of what guys think we should be, and that just doesn't wash with me at all.

Apropos of nothing, I find it interesting that sometimes when women or girls ring true as "real" people, we later find out that the author or show-creator initially created the character as a male, but decided to change it to a female at the last minute. One example is Mrs. Peel. There are others but I can't think of them at the moment....

You put it way more succintly than me. I never used to get why Willow made some of my friends really mad, but I think over the past few years I've begun to see how upsetting it can be to see someone's who supposed to be like you, but is really just some distorted male ideal of who you are.

I want girl characters who are flawed and interested and grow and change, who get mad, and most of all aren't punished for being interesting. Sadly, I just don't think it's going to happen very much or at all.

So I love the fact that you're not so keen on most female characters, because I agree with you, mostly. That is: I think there is a complete lack of female characters worth writing/reading in most fandoms (well, worth writing/reading by my own very biased standards). I think the reason (for me), moreso than not being to identify with them, is that they are one-demensional, and I can't be bothered to create personalities for them when the creators themselves can't. Why spend time making Lana interesting when Lex is right there to play with, after all?

Harry Potter is the worst of the lot. I don't know that I'd say it's sexist, exactly, but it's certainly lacking when it comes to the estrogen side of things. Where I can forgive Rowling for lax characterizations of Sirius, Remus (well, all MWPP people, really) because their whole story is rather epic and hits so many of my story telling kinks (and, well, they are minor characters), and where textual cannon annoyances abound with the characterizations of Draco, Ron, Harry, Neville, they are still the best kind of fucked up. (That sentence really isn't grammatically correct is it?) Anyway, I can fogive Rowling those things because the ideas behind those stories inspire me. Not so much with the ideas behind the female characters, who are all underdeveloped; Ginny: suddenly not shy!, Hermione: loves to read!, Tonks: able to change hairstyles! I will admit that I've read fanfic that gives the women character and vitality and personality, but still...to get me to write about a female character, you have to give me more than that.

There's exceptions, of course, in some fandoms. BtVS had a few, with potential, at least: Anya, Willow, Faith. The X-Files had Scully. Firefly and Farscape (at least S1-3) had complex female characters. Wonderfalls, in all four episodes, had the coolest slacker chick ever.

But, still, the majority of female characters lack, well, character, and those who don't still usually are shoved to the sideline because a) the males are usually more interesting b) writing about the females would break up much loved slash pairings, c) there usually aren't enough cool females per fandom to slash them together, d)if you do look at the slash side of things, often the males are slashed partially as objects of...sexual examination, if you will, and e) writers are afraid of Mary Sues.

Anyway, this was rambling and I'm sorry for taking up your space, but it's an issue that bugs me just a bit...or alot. Because I'd like to write more about characters of my own gender, but, mostly...they just leave me out cold.

But, still, the majority of female characters lack, well, character, and those who don't still usually are shoved to the sideline because a) the males are usually more interesting b) writing about the females would break up much loved slash pairings, c) there usually aren't enough cool females per fandom to slash them together, d)if you do look at the slash side of things, often the males are slashed partially as objects of...sexual examination, if you will, and e) writers are afraid of Mary Sues.

Yes, what you said. :)

I think watching this season of dS may be the first time in years that I've watched a show and thought, 'no, no slash, but YES, they are friends'. This is what friendship should be like. This is fucking devotion.

I love the Vecchio/Fraser friendship, and I don't see an iota of slashability between them. Everything they go through, from the pilot to Letting Go (is it Letting Go? The one in the hospital after Victoria's Secret) just screams of a growing friendship. Everything they do for each other! I know one person who said that the reason VS couldn't be on a single DVD was that the world would end if such a perfect story were available. I think I agree.

I think you might be right.

Not only do I not have all the answers, a lot of the time I don't even know the question... but I do believe in faking it until you can sort things out.

see? this is why I love you.

That Victoria put Fraser through all that, and he still wanted her just proved a) how nuts he is b) how devoted he can be c) Fraser's fucking crazy.

Hahahaha. Yes.

Meta, babble...it's a fine line, you know.

;)

I've thought about it and it basically comes down to my inability to relate to them on the personal level I need to feel a decent affinity with my character...

If you don't, then you don't. Who cares what others think about your methods of writing or on what subjects you choose to write? The bottom line is that you're a brilliant writer. What you do is create.

So create whatever the hell you want to create and do it with whom, what, when, where, how, why the hell you choose to. When you write, you are your own god.

seasons 1 and 2 of dS were heart-wrenching while 3 and 4 were pure crack. it became an entirely different series once they got Callum/Kowalski on board, but i know that attracted a lot of new viewers ~~(or maybe that was just Mr Rennie)~~.

i never even saw Victoria's Secret until a couple of years after discovering the show, but once i did...GUH. that's my Fraser, right there, yeah - flawed, and HUMAN, like you wouldn't believe. ::pets him fondly::

i never even saw Victoria's Secret until a couple of years after discovering the show, but once i did...GUH. that's my Fraser, right there, yeah - flawed, and HUMAN, like you wouldn't believe. ::pets him fondly::

I saw 3 & 4 long before I ever got a whiff of Season 1 Fraser, and truthfuly I couldn't really understand the appeal. I mean yes, he was hot, but he seemed so perfect and robotic... and okay, gay. Plus, Ray! But then I saw S1 and saw the interaction between Ray V and Fraser and then I got it. They were friends and Fraser was so uncertain, and HOT, and that was a Fraser I could relate to and sympathize for and root for and it's like a whole new world now ;)

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I don't meta, I babble.

re: Fraser S1&2 vs S3&4

Re: Fraser S1&2 vs S3&4

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