OMGWTF it's attack of the meta.

[hackthis_archive]

theantimodel was postulating on giving authors criticism, constructive or otherwise, and why some authors just can't stand the heat in the kitchen. I started writing an answer, which then degenerated into much thoughtfulness that should not be happening so soon after holiday.


I have, what I think, are some of the best betas ever -- but hopefully all writers feel this way about the people who help them better their writing. That doesn't mean, however, that we're not human, and therefore, immune to mistakes. Grammar, spelling, the wrong word in the wrong place, and the comma thing, well, I never liked that unit in school anyway (this puts serialkarma in fits on a regular basis).

Regardless, I know that my stories are not perfect. I know that they never will be. I know that my stories will inevitably have a word in the wrong place or a punctuation mark on the wrong side of a word, or something to this affect. I know this. I have accepted this. I have tried to fix this, but some shit is inevitable, and I am not fastidious enough to go back through every story I've ever written and right these wrongs.

There are some people who do this; I'm not one of them.

I write for content and clarity, but I'm not a copy editor. Semi-colons are not my strong point, but I like to think that my characters are, and they're more important to me than whether or not I put two spaces after the full stop or three. This doesn't mean I want my stories to be full of POV issues or historical snafus. If I make a glaring error, you can call me on it, but like pretty much every other person in existence, I prefer to be treated the way I treat other people. That means if I don’t go around rudely telling you you're dressed like a slapper or like a colour-blind manky git, don't do the same to me.

Have manners. They're free.

I'll be the first to admit that I'm never satisfied with a story and even after posting will continue to edit sentences and find wording errors. Sometimes I add whole sentences or change paragraphs completely, and I'm always tweaking my endings. My stories are always a work in progress, but sometimes when I think something's done and dusted, it stings to hear someone say, "Yeah, regardless of whatever masterpiece you think you have going on, I see you splattered paint in the wrong place."

IMO, delivery has a lot to do with how people perceive constructive criticism, or criticism in general. You don't have to like what I do, it doesn't make it wrong, it just makes it different, and different is not a four-letter word, no matter what anyone tells you.

Mary Poppins sang that a spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down, and I'm not saying you should have to soothe a writer's ego before you tell them that they're walking around with their flies open, but I'm saying that it doesn't hurt. This doesn't mean that if I put crack instead of cock, for frakking sake, you can't just tell me. But -- if you're going to roll up and say 'I think your characterisation sucks!' you're going to have to at least tell me why you feel this way, and it helps if you tells me what does work for you so that I've got some sort of barometer to judge it by.

At the end of the day, I believe that what makes a story work isn't your spelling or your commas, but I do think they are good to have.

I think betas are even better to have.

I think that authors should put their best writing foot forward, and I think that they should be respected for it, but I also know that respect has to be earned.

I know that you're only as good as the people who support you and make you try harder.

So if your goal in nit-picking an author is to support them and make them better, more power to you. If your goal is to be annoying fucker who just wants the attention and hasn't got anything better to do – get a life.


In more joyous news, Happy Birthday to the most fatabulous and lovely estrella30. It is a honour to be around your infectuous enthusiasm and I'm so pleased to know you. I wish you many, many happy returns of the day, sweetie.*

*I heard you have discovered the wonder that is Entourage. Let's hug it out, bitch!

Comments

[serialkarma.livejournal.com]

(this puts serialkarma in fits on a regular basis).

I see it's let's poke fun at SK's grammatical issues day! That's all right. I can take it.

No, really! It's just fine! See if I care!

[plumtastic.livejournal.com]

Have manners. They're free.

Word. That's one annoyance about LJ fic posting (for me, at least) -- people seem to forget the idea of doing certain things in private.

Not surprisingly, I'm with you 100% on this.

did I see someone mention Entourage?

[daraq.livejournal.com]

Why isn't everyone talking about this show? I think you're the only other person I know who watches. Kevin Connelly said in an interview that it's required viewing for LA residents and I miss LA so much right now. :-(

I've been mad for Entourage since the first episode and this season has been even better than the first. Character development!!! What show has that, for goodness sake?! Believable (well, sorta) plots! Johnny Drama's vulnerability, E's titanium balls, the ever-lovely Vince, Turtle's morph into a real character, Malcolm McDowell, Emmanuelle Chriqui, Debi Mazur, Mandy Moore, Melinda Clarke and, my favorite non-slashy couple on tv, Ari and Lloyd. I love this show and am already in mourning over next Sunday's season finale.

How are you? I hope all is well and that you're having a fabulous summer. All the best, D

[cyanei.livejournal.com]

If I'm walking around with my fly open, I expect to be told in the most direct manner possible.

Honestly, I spend a lot of time worrying about my fly. I don't think anyone's noticed, but I do a lot of little surruptitious zipper-checks throughout the day. I'm always wondering if it looks like I'm grabbing my crotch all the time.

In fact, it probably does. Which explains some things about my reputation.

[oxoniensis.livejournal.com]

There are rules for commas? Really?

Ooops.

[murklins.livejournal.com]

I've been reading a bit about the beta reading process today, not because I think I could ever really offer much in the way of helpful feedback to any writers, but because I've been reading some stories lately that the authors have obviously put a lot of thought into and I'm sure that being able to think more analytically would help me better appreciate those stories. Plus I'm in a bookclub in RL and I want to sound smart. :)

A lot of what you said reminded me of Not Just Talking to the Monitor: an Examination of Beta Reading (http://www.trickster.org/symposium/symp102.html) by Sharakh. While simply commenting on a story is not the same as beta reading it, if someone ventures into criticism in that comment, the axiom of "Be polite. Be balanced. Be honest. In that order." ought to be applied. Because if you are some random stranger popping in to dole out your wisdom, then don't you want the author to be receptive?

So yeah, manners, I totally agree.

I very rarely give less than completely positive feedback on stories that I read online. After all, I'm reading for free and I'm not the author's beta reader, plus I'm not a writer myself nor even a particularly astute reader so what business have I running around with a big red pen? I realize, though, that the few times I've given any somewhat critical feedback, I've emailed the authors privately about my concerns rather than posting a public comment. It feels really wrong to me to criticize a writer in front of other people. But now I'm wondering if I'm denying other readers the chance to defend the work as it stands and preventing the author from receiving a less one-sided opinion. Am I only protecting myself when I voice my criticisms privately?

[estrella30.livejournal.com]

YAY! Thank you, sweetie! You are one of my most favorite people in all of fandom - thank you so much for the wonderful wishes!!

*hugs*

(also, OMG YES!! ENTOURAGE! dude, I just - I have seen the light!)

[thepouncer.livejournal.com]

In the Great Criticism Debate, I've seen a lot of people say they no longer offer unsolicited detailed feedback, because no matter how politely they phrased their comments, the author took offense and hated them forevermore. It's yet to happen to me, but I've also been careful about the authors I respond to. Some stories seem whacked in terms of characterization or plot and usually I just refrain from commenting at all. That seems just as bad as being rude about my reaction. Sometimes silence isn't golden. It just means that an author can't grow into new skills and artistry.

[theantimodel.livejournal.com]

I'm terrible with commas and semi-colons and the like. I use commas way too much half the time, and then I spend the other half paranoid that I've used too many and abandon them entirely. I don't expect perfect grammar from writers or stories that are 100% error-free. Typos and dropped commas are expected. But if an author says that they don't use betas because their spellcheck works just as well and they don't want a beta to fuck with their writing style, shouldn't their stories back that statement up by being free of those types of errors?

I rarely leave con-crit unless an author specifically says that they're open to getting it and I think my suggestions could be helpful. To me saying that suggests that the author is genuinely interested in learning and growing as a writer through the con-crit process. And I completely agree with what you and murklins said about being polite. People in general aren't going to be receptive to criticism if it's doled out in a rude or condescending manner. If you're a reader who wants to leave con-crit I think it's important to stress the constructive. If your criticism is only meant to tear down a person's writing and not help them make it better, I think there's a problem with that.

Also, feel free to name me, I don't really care either way. (and: am I wrong in thinking that the manners portion of this post is not directed at me? Because I certainly thought I was being polite in my interaction with that author.)