O.C Meta - Seth & Summer & WTF
Nov. 19th, 2004 11:27 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
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torchthisnow, because dude, I don't do meta. At least in a coherent, sober sense, and I would never in a million years do meta for The O.C. But. Molly made some really good points here, and well... I find myself not necessarily defending Seth, but trying to understand why he's done what's he's done, because I don’t want to hate The Cohen. Maybe just slap him around a little.
No, no, no, I never said that... Yes, that's right, they can't be friends. Unless both of them are involved with other people, then they can... This is an amendment to the earlier rule. If the two people are in relationships, the pressure of possible involvement is lifted... That doesn't work either, because what happens then is, the person you're involved with can't understand why you need to be friends with the person you're just friends with. Like it means something is missing from the relationship and why do you have to go outside to get it? And when you say "No, no, no it's not true, nothing is missing from the relationship," the person you're involved with then accuses you of being secretly attracted to the person you're just friends with, which you probably are. I mean, come on, who the hell are we kidding, let's face it. Which brings us back to the earlier rule before the amendment, which is men and women can't be friends. -When Harry Met Sally.
From the outset, I'm trying not to touch that Seth and Summer "friendship" thing with a ten-foot pole, because I think it's pretty obvious that while Summer wants to be friends, Seth just wants her back -- hence the whole job at the Bait Shop working for 30something Punk!Chick. The fact that Seth's trying to pretend to be what Summer wants him to be to get her back, you know, truthfully that's a bit odd, because Seth's always prided himself on being himself. He’s geeky and dorky and he's a Cohen. He's not particularly suave and this -- this doesn't seem like him.
Season 1 Seth Cohen would go and sit on Summer's lawn blasting The Shins or Death Cab or whatever (thank youlalejandra). He would send her comics. Would he really get a job considering all the lamenting he did when Ryan got his job? I don't really know if I buy this -- but for the sake of the argument, let's put this under the 'Personal Growth' thing. Let’s say that that’s the motto for season two: Personal Growth in Twenty-Two Episodes Or Less. Seth is going to try and be a better guy, not because he thinks he needs to improve, but to get Summer back and ‘personal growth’ is what he’s labeling it -– when maybe it should be called what it really is, which is being selfish.
Now, I hear you already. You’re saying, dude, I thought you were going to defend Cohen -- but that’s not what I said. I’m not defending him, I’m trying to understand him. So. For now we will humour your personal growth, Joshua, but don’t let us down, okay?
And I definitely get the sense that she very much likes Zach, but it feels so wretchedly platonic, which sucks, because I can also see how much he really is into her. -torchthisnow
See, I keep going "It's because he's GAY!" But maybe that's just me. -serialkarma
Okay, apart from the gay thing, which yes, did break my gaydar -- maybe *that's* what the power outage was earlier -- I digress. I whole-heartedly agree with everyone who thinks Summer is getting treated appallingly. I certainly do. If I had to choose between Seth and Zach right now, I’d be introducing Zach to my dad too. Now I’ll be the first to admit that Summer is all about looking after herself; but it’s clear that she does this because she’s not sure anybody else is going to. Except maybe her dad, and yes, she’s selfish, but she’s not selfish like Marissa and in no way is she selfish like Seth.
It’s blatantly obvious that Summer put herself out there for Seth. She gave up her inner circle and her reputation and everything she protected herself with for some guy who stood on a coffee bar and said he loved her. Why? Because she thought she could trust him.
The issue of the month isn’t personal growth; it’s trust. It’s about establishing trust and breaking it and repairing it, and people, it’s not easy. Seth doesn’t seem to understand this just yet.
It's pretty obvious that Summer doesn't care for people easily, hello rage blackouts, but she opened herself to Seth, because she thought she could trust him. She thought he would be there for her, and they could have their Breakfast Club -- and he punked her.
Seth totally punked out.
Punk bitch. Punk'd.
Say it however you want.
And then to say, 'oh my bad' -- that's just. That's so beyond the pale that it's in another country. And then to have Seth think 'yes, we can just pick up where the music stopped' after he sent her a fucking letter? Oh, hell no. I am 100% on board with Summer. I see where she's coming from; I am behind her all the way. I know why she choose Zach even though it’s clear she doesn’t have those feelings for him -- she did it because she trusts him. Zach is safe and dependable. He’s a politician’s progeny, but he’s no Bush daughter. Zach is not going to break her heart – unless he really is gay, but that’s a story for another time.
The point is Summer is hurt and she needs someone to take care of her – Zach is that. I say more power to Summer for looking out for herself, and yet, for the first time in weeks I'm also on board with Seth -- and here's why:
You remember when you were little and you really really wanted a new toy and you begged and begged and sometimes you didn't get it, but most times you did? This is what's happening to Seth now.
From day one, Seth was established as the geek and the dork, and yes, even the outsider. He had all this money, his family was super-duper rich, and the money bought him a lot of really nice things, but he was never really happy (King Midas, hear me!), because when you have everything you want, you don’t appreciate things anymore. Yes, Seth didn’t really have any friends, but if you think about all his material possessions you’ll realize that Seth did a lot of work buying himself happiness (anybody want a lobster dinner?) and it didn’t always work, but it must've worked well enough for 16 years -- and if you’re continually buying things, you begin to put a price on everything.
Except there was this one thing that Seth wanted that he couldn’t have. He wanted Summer Roberts, and he wanted her for so long that she was like the biggest, bestest, shiniest toy ever. Seth was never going to get her – except he did and it was like, huh?
Seth had all these ideas of what life with Summer was going to be like, and she was never going to be able to meet his expectations. Never. And now, she understands that. Seth, no, I don’t think he gets that just yet. She’s right, he was all about the chase, all about the getting, the buying, and not about the appreciating. I think when he finally had Summer he was kind of disappointed and hurt, because he had all these expectations and plans and they just, well, not like the description on the box at all.
And what do you do when something doesn’t do what you want it to do?
You break it.
You throw a tantrum.
You cast it aside with a letter and say ‘I never wanted it anyway.’
So this is what Seth did, because that's what people do when they're hurt and they don't know how to express themselves. They break things. They don’t consider the consequences, because when you’ve been playing alone for that long you don’t think what happens to one toy will matter. You don’t consider the feelings of others; and what Seth really needs to learn at this point is some fucking appreciation --and this brings us back to the personal growth business.
I discarded the idea earlier, but it’s starting to make a little more sense now. The start of this season, I think, is about learning that actions have consequences, that people are not disposable like toys. I think Seth has a lot to learn, and I’m hoping he’s going to learn it. Maybe some day it’ll make him worthy of Summer, but he’s got a long way to go, and you know it won’t be pretty getting him there. He’s going to fuck up more, there’s going to be a lot of sulking involved, a lot of whinging, and you know what? I’m hoping that seeing Summer with Zach is a hitting-bottom moment for him, because everybody should have a couple of those in their lifetime -– it makes you learn how to appreciate the things that you’re given.
That, ladies and gents, is personal growth.
Okay, I have worn myself out with the meta. No story today.
torchthisnow, because dude, I don't do meta. At least in a coherent, sober sense, and I would never in a million years do meta for The O.C. But. Molly made some really good points here, and well... I find myself not necessarily defending Seth, but trying to understand why he's done what's he's done, because I don’t want to hate The Cohen. Maybe just slap him around a little. No, no, no, I never said that... Yes, that's right, they can't be friends. Unless both of them are involved with other people, then they can... This is an amendment to the earlier rule. If the two people are in relationships, the pressure of possible involvement is lifted... That doesn't work either, because what happens then is, the person you're involved with can't understand why you need to be friends with the person you're just friends with. Like it means something is missing from the relationship and why do you have to go outside to get it? And when you say "No, no, no it's not true, nothing is missing from the relationship," the person you're involved with then accuses you of being secretly attracted to the person you're just friends with, which you probably are. I mean, come on, who the hell are we kidding, let's face it. Which brings us back to the earlier rule before the amendment, which is men and women can't be friends. -When Harry Met Sally.
From the outset, I'm trying not to touch that Seth and Summer "friendship" thing with a ten-foot pole, because I think it's pretty obvious that while Summer wants to be friends, Seth just wants her back -- hence the whole job at the Bait Shop working for 30something Punk!Chick. The fact that Seth's trying to pretend to be what Summer wants him to be to get her back, you know, truthfully that's a bit odd, because Seth's always prided himself on being himself. He’s geeky and dorky and he's a Cohen. He's not particularly suave and this -- this doesn't seem like him.
Season 1 Seth Cohen would go and sit on Summer's lawn blasting The Shins or Death Cab or whatever (thank you
lalejandra). He would send her comics. Would he really get a job considering all the lamenting he did when Ryan got his job? I don't really know if I buy this -- but for the sake of the argument, let's put this under the 'Personal Growth' thing. Let’s say that that’s the motto for season two: Personal Growth in Twenty-Two Episodes Or Less. Seth is going to try and be a better guy, not because he thinks he needs to improve, but to get Summer back and ‘personal growth’ is what he’s labeling it -– when maybe it should be called what it really is, which is being selfish.Now, I hear you already. You’re saying, dude, I thought you were going to defend Cohen -- but that’s not what I said. I’m not defending him, I’m trying to understand him. So. For now we will humour your personal growth, Joshua, but don’t let us down, okay?
And I definitely get the sense that she very much likes Zach, but it feels so wretchedly platonic, which sucks, because I can also see how much he really is into her. -
torchthisnowSee, I keep going "It's because he's GAY!" But maybe that's just me. -
serialkarmaOkay, apart from the gay thing, which yes, did break my gaydar -- maybe *that's* what the power outage was earlier -- I digress. I whole-heartedly agree with everyone who thinks Summer is getting treated appallingly. I certainly do. If I had to choose between Seth and Zach right now, I’d be introducing Zach to my dad too. Now I’ll be the first to admit that Summer is all about looking after herself; but it’s clear that she does this because she’s not sure anybody else is going to. Except maybe her dad, and yes, she’s selfish, but she’s not selfish like Marissa and in no way is she selfish like Seth.
It’s blatantly obvious that Summer put herself out there for Seth. She gave up her inner circle and her reputation and everything she protected herself with for some guy who stood on a coffee bar and said he loved her. Why? Because she thought she could trust him.
The issue of the month isn’t personal growth; it’s trust. It’s about establishing trust and breaking it and repairing it, and people, it’s not easy. Seth doesn’t seem to understand this just yet.
It's pretty obvious that Summer doesn't care for people easily, hello rage blackouts, but she opened herself to Seth, because she thought she could trust him. She thought he would be there for her, and they could have their Breakfast Club -- and he punked her.
Seth totally punked out.
Punk bitch. Punk'd.
Say it however you want.
And then to say, 'oh my bad' -- that's just. That's so beyond the pale that it's in another country. And then to have Seth think 'yes, we can just pick up where the music stopped' after he sent her a fucking letter? Oh, hell no. I am 100% on board with Summer. I see where she's coming from; I am behind her all the way. I know why she choose Zach even though it’s clear she doesn’t have those feelings for him -- she did it because she trusts him. Zach is safe and dependable. He’s a politician’s progeny, but he’s no Bush daughter. Zach is not going to break her heart – unless he really is gay, but that’s a story for another time.
The point is Summer is hurt and she needs someone to take care of her – Zach is that. I say more power to Summer for looking out for herself, and yet, for the first time in weeks I'm also on board with Seth -- and here's why:
You remember when you were little and you really really wanted a new toy and you begged and begged and sometimes you didn't get it, but most times you did? This is what's happening to Seth now.
From day one, Seth was established as the geek and the dork, and yes, even the outsider. He had all this money, his family was super-duper rich, and the money bought him a lot of really nice things, but he was never really happy (King Midas, hear me!), because when you have everything you want, you don’t appreciate things anymore. Yes, Seth didn’t really have any friends, but if you think about all his material possessions you’ll realize that Seth did a lot of work buying himself happiness (anybody want a lobster dinner?) and it didn’t always work, but it must've worked well enough for 16 years -- and if you’re continually buying things, you begin to put a price on everything.
Except there was this one thing that Seth wanted that he couldn’t have. He wanted Summer Roberts, and he wanted her for so long that she was like the biggest, bestest, shiniest toy ever. Seth was never going to get her – except he did and it was like, huh?
Seth had all these ideas of what life with Summer was going to be like, and she was never going to be able to meet his expectations. Never. And now, she understands that. Seth, no, I don’t think he gets that just yet. She’s right, he was all about the chase, all about the getting, the buying, and not about the appreciating. I think when he finally had Summer he was kind of disappointed and hurt, because he had all these expectations and plans and they just, well, not like the description on the box at all.
And what do you do when something doesn’t do what you want it to do?
You break it.
You throw a tantrum.
You cast it aside with a letter and say ‘I never wanted it anyway.’
So this is what Seth did, because that's what people do when they're hurt and they don't know how to express themselves. They break things. They don’t consider the consequences, because when you’ve been playing alone for that long you don’t think what happens to one toy will matter. You don’t consider the feelings of others; and what Seth really needs to learn at this point is some fucking appreciation --and this brings us back to the personal growth business.
I discarded the idea earlier, but it’s starting to make a little more sense now. The start of this season, I think, is about learning that actions have consequences, that people are not disposable like toys. I think Seth has a lot to learn, and I’m hoping he’s going to learn it. Maybe some day it’ll make him worthy of Summer, but he’s got a long way to go, and you know it won’t be pretty getting him there. He’s going to fuck up more, there’s going to be a lot of sulking involved, a lot of whinging, and you know what? I’m hoping that seeing Summer with Zach is a hitting-bottom moment for him, because everybody should have a couple of those in their lifetime -– it makes you learn how to appreciate the things that you’re given.
That, ladies and gents, is personal growth.
Okay, I have worn myself out with the meta. No story today.
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no subject
Date: 2004-11-19 11:38 am (UTC)Kick-ass meta, and it almost makes me feel bad for Seth. Almost.
no subject
Date: 2004-11-19 11:52 am (UTC)...shit, I had something else to say but it's gone. damn.
no subject
Date: 2004-11-19 11:53 am (UTC)In other words - word.
no subject
Date: 2004-11-19 12:18 pm (UTC)The thing is, I wonder if the writers are doing any of this on purpose. They might just be lazy fucks - it seems to me that we're getting episode after episode of The O.C. "insider" nudge-nudge-wink-wink bullshit and the characters are SO OUT OF CHARACTER that it's hard to watch. First season they pulled this, changing the characters in order to get the stories they wanted - and it seems like they're doing that again. I mean, really - blue collar worker Seth Cohen? Portland is not that transformative - there's a really big gap between teaching rich bitches how to sail and cleaning up puke on amps.
I am dubious.
no subject
Date: 2004-11-19 12:31 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-11-19 12:56 pm (UTC)You can rationalize things however you want, and you did a fabulous job here - the Seth/Summer-as-toy analogy was dead on - but that doesn't change the fact that the O.C. hasn't been the same show this season as it was last. Hell, if you're going to get into it, the show hasn't been in top form since last February - with the exception of the finale. I would take any of the Oliver arc over the episode we had last night, and that's saying a lot.
I mean, we get the gay, yes, and that makes me happy. But what happened to the characters? Suddenly, it's a soap opera world and they move around in it, instead of the other way around.
So, yes, maybe Seth's actions can be explained - but even if we can explain them, how long are we going to keep watching?
no subject
Date: 2004-11-19 01:53 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-11-19 03:45 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-11-19 05:25 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-11-21 10:29 am (UTC)The writers have definitely gotten lazy. They seem to think that because the show made money and has become a "pop culture phenomenon" they can do whatever they want and to hell with the characters. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe they're just not sure what to do and they'll get that hang of it and by season three, the show will be back on track.
Still, what if they think that because a lot of the show's watchers are silly teenagers who can't spell the word caterpillar and who don't give a rat's ass about staying in character and plot direction and all they notice is that, "Oh look, Seth is working a blue collar job now, Ryan is a dork, ha ha, it's ironic.", they can do things differently and change characters? Josh said he wanted to delve deeper into characters this season. What if the character's he's delving deeper into aren't the same characters? What's the point, then?
Sorry. I have the tendency to ramble. You don't know me, by the way. I'm Marcela. Is it alright if I friend you? I love it when I can ramble with others.
Thoughts on Seth
Date: 2004-11-21 10:37 am (UTC)I've been a big fan of your fan fic, and I like the Summer/toy analogy. I'd like to throw out an idea about this (meta-meta?).
I think one of the big mistakes the writers/producers/et al made last season was not showing us why Seth was an outcast. They said many-a-time that Seth had no friends at Harbor before Ryan, that no one at school liked him, Marissa barely knew who he was, but (almost) every time we saw Seth, we sympathized with him. As the season went on, it became harder and harder to reconcile the Seth of backstory with the Seth seen on the show. Seth was smart, funny, engaging, why did he have absolutely no friends? I think this characterization is in line with Schwartz taking a step back, if you will, and correcting a charcterization flaw from Season 1. We're being shown Seth's flaws--his selfishness, his spoiled-ness, his elitism (about the whole comic book thing).
I hope we see Seth's character grow. Summer may be the heart of the show, but Seth is the protagonist. He has a lot of growing up to do, and the only way he can learn is to be forced to confront his flaws and work at changing them.
Yes, I've spent waaaay too much time at TWoP ;)