Bi-annual meta rave!

[hackthis_archive]

ethrosdemon and I are very happy in our new sandbox. Check out what she wrote: Between Snowdonia and Cardiff, Genius and Madness . It's Bevan/Oliver, with a side order of Nine. Not that I watch Dr Who, but I have heard that this is v good thing. Mostly I just say 'Yay for Wales!'

Recommendation: A Place to Be by hesychasm. People are saying this is Harry/Neville, but I prefer to think of it as Neville gen, with some Harry business thrown in. Mostly I just say "read it, because it's absolutely gorgeous."

In the run up to the HBP business I've been trying to get my ducks in a row regarding this Montague business and whether or not I really want to kill Harry with my bare hands or if I just have not-so-latent Slytherin rage.



I'm not really sure these days if I hate Harry the character or I loathe what he's come to represent in canon and fanon. What does he represent to me, you ask?

Incessant whinging.

I've always been a great believer in the 'Shut the fuck up, and get on with it' school of thought, and Harry dwells and moans and bitches, like, well, a little bitch. I understand that this is the way of teenagers, to moan and whinge and skulk around the house because they are so misunderstood. I wasn't a teen that long ago; I know the drill.

What's missing from Harry now, for me, is that empathy. And the sympathy.

The thing is -- I used to like Harry, a lot, but the longer I spend in fandom they less I like him, and the more I find him a snivelling little shit. And really. I don't want that. I don't feel required to like him, but I want to be able to write him, or at least read about him, without thinking 'die!die!die' or 'Neville could do it so much better.'*

*I think that anyway, but that's not the point just now.

I think if JKR were more balanced in her characterisation, I'd be happier. If Harry seemed to be held accountable (besides to that fruitcake, Umbridge) for being a drama queen and irrational, and so in need of anger management classes, I'd be really happy.

I understand that Harry's having a tough time, but guess what? So is the fucking person next door! Chances are they just found out that their dad's a Death Eater, or that their mum's got an incurable disease or that all the money's gone.

Bad shit happens to people every day.

You are born; you live; one day, you grow old and die. It sucks, but that's the way of the fucking world.

The only difference is what you do with the time you've got. I am so tired of Harry acting like he's fucking entitled to anything more than the person next door just because he's got some fucking scar on his forehead.

I don't like the imbalance of feeling like I should love him just because he's got more, or less, than anybody else. Make me like him for himself and not because his name's all over the cover of the book.

While we're on imbalance and unbalanced though, can I just get this hate-crime business off my chest for a moment?

I know there's been talk of seeing the Montague-in-the-Vanishing-Cupboard as a hate-crime and while I think it was malicious, I don't know if was a hate crime. Montague provoked the twins. He's not blameless.

I don’t want to diminish the impact of what they did, because that shit was fucking serious; and I'm having issues here, because I've always liked the twins. I always thought they belonged in Slytherin too, but that's not the point. Someone explain to me what kind of message JKR is trying to send, because she never fucking addresses it!

I don't think that when you stick someone in a cupboard, and they reemerge in a toilet, you should ignore it. Call me old-fashioned.

So maybe, my real issue is JKR's lack of balance. I mean the twins lock a Slytherin in a cupboard, the poor boy shows up six days later in a fucking toilet and there's no fucking retribution?! There's no nothing? Regardless of what they intended, that was wrong.

If a Slytherin had done something like that, they would've been strung up by their gonads! But because they're Gryffindors it's excusable, and that, to me, is fucked up.

No sodding balance.

If you do something wrong, you should be called to the mat, regardless, but apparently, in the wizarding world, like the real world, if you have a little fame or are on 'the side of right' then you're not held accountable for your actions.

That's just fucked up -- but I guess that's the way of JKR's world too.

Okay, I had to get that off my chest, even if it didn't make any sense. We now return you to your regularly scheduled programme, which is trying to rub two words together and form a story.

Comments

[teffy.livejournal.com]

If a Slytherin had done something like that, they would've been strung up by their gonads! But because they're Gryffindors it's excusable, and that, to me, is fucked up.

Word.

[hackthis.livejournal.com]

We are not here to be scapegoats. No matter what anyone else says.

[viverra-libro.livejournal.com]

RE: Harry and JKR's imbalances -- Whee!!! I'm happy there's someone in this boat besides me!

[hackthis.livejournal.com]

I've been trying to come to grips with the Harry thing for ages, but upon learning the Montague bit, it just pushed me right over the edge.

[viverra-libro.livejournal.com]

Well, I agree it was a crappy thing to do, but what I think is actually worse is how Dumbledore gave the cup to Gryffindor in SS. Yes, it recognized the trio (and Neville), and what they did, but think about how incredibly unfair that is to the Slytherins. Imagine how that'll make them feel about Hogwarts and Dumbledore and Harry for, well, forever. The Slytherins will never think The Good Guys are trustworthy or fair after that. It was inappropriate to confuse school and the "good fight" when awarding points. The Gryffindor house could have been rewarded in some other manner, after the big celebration.

Anyway, stepping off the soapbox now. . .

[romanticalgirl.livejournal.com]

I don't think it's irrational House pride that's got you going here. I loathed Harry in OotP and, because it seems the most Harry centric (I know that doesn't make sense, but bear with me) of the books, it made me dislike the book a lot too. In the other books, Harry is somewhat balanced by those he keeps around him - Ron, Hermione, Neville (and I know you don't like Hermione, but you have to admit she does temper Harry a bit), but in OotP, it was All. About. Harry in a way that worked to the detriment of the book for me. Yes, he was a 15 year old boy, but most 15 year old boys don't make me want to kill them.

However, I will never admit that the twinses should be punished...unless it was naughty.

[hackthis.livejournal.com]

I don't dislike OotP, at least I don't think I do. I've only read it once, so I fear it's premature to loathe the entire book just because one characterization was so bad. I may have some latent dislike for it, with all the mindless shouting and the lack of mention of any other houses, ;) but it's got a lot of Neville, so. I just think the book could've done with some editing, of say about 100 pages. I do think Harry's not being balanced though, and I know how much you love the twins, I do too, but you must admit that what they did was wrong. I highly doubt they could've seen such an outcome, but really.

[romanticalgirl.livejournal.com]

t's premature to loathe the entire book just because one characterization was so bad.

The problem with that is that the characterization that was so bad was the main character about whom 99.9% of the book is about. The other .1% is about Hagrid and Grawp, which is bad and wrong in and of itself.

And yes, the twins did do something wrong and they should have been taken to task for it, even though they probably didn't know how it would end up (though if they did, you know it was because one of them pushed the other one in and he wound up in the toilet as well). The books are very Gryffindor-centric and they're allowed much more (unless they're caught out by Snape), but that stems, again, from Harry's POV.

JKR needs to give Harry a bit more perspective and a bit of tempering. I find him to be annoying and whiny. The other reason I disliked OotP so much is that it that even when others are present (such as during the DA meetings) or even during the fight at the Ministry, the tertiary characters are barely important in the scope of things. It's All. Harry. All. The. Time, and it's a bit wearing as he's nothing but an annoying little prig throughout most of the book.

<-- has issues, obviously.

[hackthis.livejournal.com]

I agree with you 100% percent. Especially about the Harry business. And the Grawp business. *rolls eyes*

[romanticalgirl.livejournal.com]

I fear that Hagrid will be the HBP (pure speculation - I know NOTHING!) just because that would mean a book FULL of Hagrid - more fuller than the others are.

In which case I could only be placated by lots of porn. *hints*

[hackthis.livejournal.com]

If the book is full of Hagrid, after I have a bonfire to burn it, and ingest large quantites of beer, I will have to write porn to consol myself. Did you have a pairing or two in mind... I say two, because surely one of them will make itch. I know you...

[romanticalgirl.livejournal.com]

If you write me something Weasley twins, I'll write you either Neville/Draco or Ron/Draco.

Deal?

[hackthis.livejournal.com]

But I'm angry with the twins! Are we talking twincest here by the way? Wait. I just had an inspiring moment!

[romanticalgirl.livejournal.com]

*cackles deviously*

If nothing else, surely there's some Slytherin dying to get back at the twinses?

[hackthis.livejournal.com]

I think serialkarma wants to have words with you, see she's betaing this thing right now and I've kinda been running around nipping at her ankles. Really, it's all your fault though since I thought up the opening line the minute I got in bed last night, and instead of getting out of bed again and just writing the damn thing, I let it percolate all night. This morning as I was getting ready all I could think was I'm going to write crazy [spoiler for your story here]! So, uh, yeah. Your fault!

[romanticalgirl.livejournal.com]

You know you love me.

[ethrosdemon.livejournal.com]

You and I need to talk about Montaguecest.

[sparky77.livejournal.com]

I think the thing with Harry Potter is that the whole thing is told from Harry perspective with the very small exception of the beginning of the fourth book. It's an interesting choice, but it also ends up being a whole lot from just one person's perspective and when you add to that it's the perspective of an adolescent boy, and adolescents by there very definition are egocentric, eventually it's going to grate a bit. I still like Harry and am still pretty sympathetic to him, but I also often laugh my ass off at him because he can be a whiny little brat. I do get the impression that J.K. Rowling is often laughing at him a bit too which is why I think I don't mind Harry so much.

There's this great book called Thristy by M. T. Anderson which is all about mocking teen boy angst, if you have a chance, you should check it out. It's incredibly morbid, but it's fucking hilarious, too.

[hackthis.livejournal.com]

Tell me more about the teenager mockage, I am always about that :)

[sparky77.livejournal.com]

It's a really fun book. It takes place in an alternative reality where people acknowledge that vampires exist and every year there is a ritual sacrifice at the white hen pantry to keep the vampires at bay. I think. I read it a while ago, so I'm not sure if I getting the details exactly right. And the story is about this teenage boy, you thinks he might be turning into a vampire and gets conned into thinking he's all part of this grand plan to save the world. Except he's really just an average teenage boy with delusions of grandeour. It's pretty brilliant, and if you like your humor super, super dark, it's an excellent book.

[liseuse.livejournal.com]

I am so tired of Harry acting like he's fucking entitled to anything more than the person next door just because he's got some fucking scar on his forehead.

It's that combined with his insistence that he doesn't want to be treated any differently that aggravates me. Just come down on one side or the other. Draco is blatant about the fact he believes he deserves preferential treatment, and whilst that can come off as a little too egotistical for my tastes, it's a lot more bearable than the constant dilly-dallying.
Also, Ron and Hermione are his friends. And part of being a friend is being there to be yelled at occasionally. Someone needs to kick Harry whilst repeating that at him. And then maybe we might be spared a little.

[hackthis.livejournal.com]

I am so tired of Harry acting like he's fucking entitled to anything more than the person next door just because he's got some fucking scar on his forehead.

It's that combined with his insistence that he doesn't want to be treated any differently that aggravates me.

Yes! Exactly. Of course, people are hypocritical all the time, but really, if you're sekritly enjoying being a celebrity, don't make a big stink about how you are so tried and no one understands you and how you are going to become a hermit and living in the Lake District. Or something to that effect :)

[liseuse.livejournal.com]

Completely.
If you were really feeling all that put upon you'd withdraw and go all silent, and I would love that to happen. Less Harry? Always a good thing. How about a few more solid mentions of the other houses? Would that be so crazy?

[hackthis.livejournal.com]

No spoilers! No spoilers! Roz, no spoilers! *sticks fingers in ears and hums loudly*

[hackthis.livejournal.com]

I went and screened this because, you know, spoilers!

[rozza.livejournal.com]

Sigh. Sorry!

[hackthis.livejournal.com]

*pets*

It's only cos I like you, that you are allowed to live! anybody else would die!die!die!

[rozza.livejournal.com]

*purrs* Yes, my master.

Stay away from the Coachella community. There's a big scrolling thingie. I only saw the first word so I have no idea what it refers to, but I mentally shrieked and hit the end key so I wouldn't have to see it anymore.

Shit, I think I am just going to stay away from the Internet from now until Saturday, which is when I'll be done with the book. You'll zip through it too, right? I need to know who I can talk to when I'm done and who is going to take a long time reading it.

[mellafe.livejournal.com]

I love it that you take your house so damn seriously. I've never seen anyone do that before. Sure, they can defend a character or a ship, but not a House. Slytherin deserves you. I salute you.

[hackthis.livejournal.com]

I don't tend to be very steadfast with ships, as you can probably tell with my fifteen thousand permutations, but there are characters that I prefer (Neville! Blaise! Theodore!). And while I don't support all the politics of my house, or anyone else's house, I don't think you should be denied justice just because some fucking hat said you should sleep in a tower or in a dungeon. And how did we end up in the fucking dungeons anyway? The mould is horrific!

[mellafe.livejournal.com]

I was thinking about that. About Slytherins in the dungeons and Gryffindors up in the nice Tower. Do we know where the other two houses are?

I REALLY like Slytherin, a lot. It makes me happy that you write about them, especially with the casting and everything. It's great.

[kismeteve.livejournal.com]

Ravenclaws have a tower, but I have no idea about the Hufflepuffs.

[kismeteve.livejournal.com]

The worst thing about the Slytherin common room is that JKR placed it under the lake. A lake. Sheesh.

[ethrosdemon.livejournal.com]

I sort of like the smell of mildew...what? if you were from Florida you would, too.

I think, really, (about to go defcon 5 meta) that what happened with the Slytherin identification thing is that at one point we wrote to explain how ambitious and cunning didn't mean evil and racists. Then that sort of transmuted into us against them, as all such things will do. That doesn't mean we lost the plot of ambition not equalling evil, because, come on, who doesn't have a dream and want to make it happen? Everyone does. The difference is the spark, the drive to make things happen. That's what being Slytherin is about, not all the Death Eater malarky.

And I still believe that the whole Gryffindor propaganda bit about all the worst wizards and witches being from Slytherin is just that, propaganda. Obviously Hufflepuffs are the ideal minions, and Ravenclaws think they're so smart that at least a few of them must have plans to take over the world. Gimme a break. Even a Gryffindor, if tricked by a lover or a family memeber could fall quite easily, out of loyalty, into evil.

[mellafe.livejournal.com]

I agree. Mostly because I just don't really trust those Hufflepuffs. I mean, they must be up to something with all those smiles and liking of everything/everyone. Not good at all.

[ethrosdemon.livejournal.com]

hello, you need to meet some of her friends. It's all about house pride, biotch. don't make me cut a Gryffindor bitch.

[mellafe.livejournal.com]

Ohhh, I think they'd scare me. Haha. I kinda turned into a Hufflepuff there.

[velutlunas.livejournal.com]

Honestly? I think the biggest problem I have right now is that it's hard for me to diferentiate between what I've read in fannon and cannon sometimes. Cause I remember liking Harry, I really do. Once upon a time long long ago...

but now it's just all so mired with scraps of badfic and people who do a damn fine job of characterization that it all gets messed up in my head, and being in utter love with most things slytherin, I find myself sitting the fence on the potter subject. But I do remember thinking he was an utter waste of flesh at the end of the last book, and that's apparently enough to make me sort of wonder how well I'm going to enjoy the next.

*sighs and goes back to nervous waiting*

[hackthis.livejournal.com]

I relate to everything you have said, also, your icon makes me grin. :D

[maleyka.livejournal.com]

I started re-reading OotP today, and while Harry's behaviour was, well, bugging me the first time around, it's grown into dislike by now. And I understand why he would feel mistreated but, damn, get over it. When I read that scene of him confronting Hermione and Ron at Grimmauld Place (you know, ALL CAPS HARRY!!1) and Hermione gets all teary-eyed and ends up apologizing for doing what Dumbledore fucking asked them to do for Harry's own safety - I really want her to slap that whiny little bitch upside the face, like, finally snap out of it for fuck's sake.

[hackthis.livejournal.com]

And I understand why he would feel mistreated but, damn, get over it. When I read that scene of him confronting Hermione and Ron at Grimmauld Place (you know, ALL CAPS HARRY!!1)

Dude, the caps. The fucking caps. Please, save me from the fracking caps.

[pir8fancier.livejournal.com]

I have this theory that she kept us all mesmorized with investing magic in the first three books (plus some excellent plots, we'll excuse her the gigantic plot bust in Book 1 that, in fact, renders ALL plots lines from that point on moot). Then we KNEW the magic. It was now a world we understood. And so she needed to move to focus on the characterization, IMHO, her greatest weakness. The last book was so over the top. She didn't need to make Harry that vile, and she's at a point in her career where no one had the cojones to tell her, Yo, DIAL IT DOWN. Don't make Harry a frigging jerk.

The invention of the wizarding world was a perfect smoke screen for the paultry and cardboard treatment of ANYONE who isn't a Gryffindor. And, sigh, the Gryffindors don't come off much better. The one exception is when Ron got royally jealous during the Triwizard Tournament. THAT was normal.

Am with you 100%. Wonder if anyone reined her in. I think the last book was the WORST.

[bozaloshtsh.livejournal.com]

I think if JKR were more balanced in her characterisation, I'd be happier. If Harry seemed to be held accountable (besides to that fruitcake, Umbridge) for being a drama queen and irrational, and so in need of anger management classes, I'd be really happy.

*coughs* Hmm. Give him a lightsaber and place the scar a little differently... *grins* Except I totally empathize with Mr. Skywalker, so the points a bit moot.

The only difference is what you do with the time you've got. I am so tired of Harry acting like he's fucking entitled to anything more than the person next door just because he's got some fucking scar on his forehead.

I hate to be redundant (because I think someone already mentioned it in one of the comments above), but what gets me is that from day 1 in Philosopher's Stone, is that Harry is a little bashful and completely insistant on everyone treating him like he's nothing special, I mean, that's the entire justification for the manner in which he was raised, right?

Dumbledore thought putting him in the harshest, most cruel inviroment possible would help him become humble, which, while an interesting idea, rides a lot on the person subjected to such conditioning's personality. All that does is create this huge buffer space fortified by resentment and hatred to fill up with all the could've beens and everything Harry thinks he's deserved because he wasn't treated kindly or equally or even bloody normally. Serves them fucking right if they thought that would make Harry humble and responsible.

Draco's resentment of Harry because of his special treatment at Hogwarts allowed for Harry to become truly and fully aware of his "supposed" role and at the same time allowed his hate to become redirected at someone that he recognized loathed him because of "special" treatment, not because they didn't understand him or that he was unwanted. As a reverse effect, Harry likely ate up the fact that Malfoy's dislike of him (plus coddling from various other sources and of course, his own actual power) meant he was, in fact, significant, and helped make him just angrier.

Especially in the moments where someone tells him to sit down and shut the fuck up, or in moments where he doesn't get a position or an honor because he's not really a beacon of self-controll and responsability. I don't hate him by a long shot, because I know what it feels like to be that frustrated, but even I don't fucking whine that much, and there always comes a point where you seriously need to slap a bitch, and Harry's point has happened several times already.

So maybe, my real issue is JKR's lack of balance. I mean the twins lock a Slytherin in a cupboard, the poor boy shows up six days later in a fucking toilet and there's no fucking retribution?! There's no nothing? Regardless of what they intended, that was wrong.

And do the Gryffindors ever get punished for shit like that? NO. You have NO IDEA how angry that makes me. Because everyone in that bloody book always assumes its benign juvenille pranking when it's Gryffindor and if it's Slytherin, that it's malicious, and why someone can't seem to get it into their bloody heads that Gryffindors are capable of malice just like the next person is completely beyond me in such a way that makes me want to send a fucking rant to JKR specifically on the nature of justice and fairness and why the hell someone on the staff doesn't get in just as much of a hissy fit over the imbalance as we do. I mean God, not Dumbledore, please, but at times I wonder why McGonagle doesn't say something, because I at least had some respect for her. *growls*

If you do something wrong, you should be called to the mat, regardless, but apparently, in the wizarding world, like the real world, if you have a little fame or are on 'the side of right' then you're not held accountable for your actions.

*gets off soapbox*

Oh, sweetheart, it doesn't always work like that in the real world either. *sighs* But I understand the rage, I do.

I must sadly go and vomit into a toilet now, as I'm sick, but I'm so happy someone else got as pissed off as I did about the twins' prank. And spot on with the Harry needs anger management assesment too.

[mydorkside.livejournal.com]

I don't even remember who Montegue is, because I read the books only once and I don't really get involved with this fandom but here's what I think anyway.

If you do something wrong, you should be called to the mat, regardless, but apparently, in the wizarding world, like the real world, if you have a little fame or are on 'the side of right' then you're not held accountable for your actions.

Wouldn't that be her point? I think especially in the past 2 books have she's liked to show how screwed up and stupid the wizarding world is, just like the real world. Media disinformation, government conceiling information to the point of emptying courses of all relevance, etc.; The very idea of competing houses, which I've felt uneasy about since day one, was questioned, I seem to recall, by a character or another in OoTP.

There were also the character flaws: seriously bad judgment calls, imo, on DUMBLEDORE's part in raising Harry, also on keeping him in the dark for that long; We find out that James, in his day, could be a bit cruel and arrogant sometimes, Sirius was immature and irresponsible in OoTP, Snape keeps taking an old grudge out on a kid...

I'm not trying to say JKR is some goddess or that her writing is flawless--far from it. However, I think that what OoTP did was to bring out all the flaws, especially in the "good guys" and, while it hurts, I enjoyed that.

I think her lack of balance is in the way she describes the Dursley's treatment of Harry. If they treated him that way when he was only a baby, I don't know how he even survived, let alone become a functioning (if whiny) person.

[ethrosdemon.livejournal.com]

Whatever, she's a hack writer. You know it. It just galls because she's sold more books than Jesus and is richer than the Queen.

She's shit at characterization and took the most appealing fictional character in the past twenty years and made him insufferable and boorish.

There is NO balance. I understood in OotP that the idea is that all kids feel they're put upon and maltreated. Yes. Ok, fine. That's true. So, Harry feels that way, but he REALLY IS maltreated, so there is the feeling of vindication for all kids who read the book. We all hated our teachers. Harry's teachers really are out to get him. It's the gratification through fiction of all kids' fantasies. Alright, we get it.

However, that doesn't mean that Harry needs to be so completely intolerable in ever facet of his life. Or so stupid. Why doesn't he just tell his friends about Umbridge? That would be the natural move. JK's writing is so poor because she doesn't follow through with normal reactions to events. It makes me want to strangle a bitch!

Ok, I'm going to leave off now, because this is going to segue into my issues with all fiction writers and there inability to stick to reality.

In conclusion: the twins were wrong; Dumbledore favors Gryffindor in a way that is reprehensible; Slytherins should revolt and get better digs; Snape is the hero of the books.

[mydorkside.livejournal.com]

Hi. I don't have much point, here but. Um, yeah.
JK's writing is so poor because she doesn't follow through with normal reactions to events.
That's true.
It's like I've noticed in bad pre-teen or kid sitcoms that have episodes revolve around a single plot point, very often that plot point is a misunderstanding--but then it's a misunderstanding that can't possibly happen because even a completely stupid person would not have acted that way/disregarded that information/failed to cross-check/jumped to that conclusion.

It's weird because some of her character developments I like. It seems she favors her plot, however, so if a natural character reaction gets in the way of her preferred plot then we'll just have to get the conceited character action.

She's good at many things, but she's unable to juggle all seamlessly.

[merrymelody.livejournal.com]

I love this post.